PX-716SA TLA #0304 CD-R quality

vbimport

#1

My TLA #0304 716SA drive so far has acted very well with all DVD media I have thrown at it so far. I have posted some outstanding scans for Verbatim DVD+R 16X and Fuji 8X DVD+R discs. So, my drive is a keeper. However, CD-R quality is disappointing on my drive. All of my “good” CD-R discs are top quality–I am using Taiyo Yuden 48X CD-R discs. The first two discs I tested the drive with were Maxell CD-R Pro rebadged Taiyo Yuden 48X CD-R discs. The latest 4 discs I’ve tested were from a Fuji rebadged Taiyo Yuden 48X spindle I bought from Best Buy. Given that I’ve already tried two batches of the media (under different band names, but still TY media), and given that my Liteon LTR-52327S has no issues with those Maxell CD-R Pro TY discs, I know my problem is not the media. Here is the results in both Plextools Pro (scanned on my PX-716SA) and Kprobe (scanned on my Liteon LTR-52327S) with this media burned at 48X on my TLA #0304 716SA drive. This disc was the best disc I’ve tested so far–usually the average C1 count is in the 3-4 range (Kprobe), with a max around 37 in KProbe. Those results are easily within spec and the discs are usable, but it seems logical that this may be another firmware issue, especially given how new the TLA #0304 drives are. I am using the 1.04 original firmware that came with the drive. Any ideas on what is causing these results? I did burn one of the discs at 32X, and that shoots the C1 average (in Kprobe) down to the 1.1 range. The disc burned at 48X shown below was scanned at 24X in Plextools Pro and Max speed in Kprobe.


#2

In my opinion you are worrying too much!

Your scans are still within specs for a Grade A burn:

AVE BLER over the whole disc not greater than 5.0
PK BLER less than 100
PK E12 less than 400
NO E22 ERRORS
NO E32 ERRORS
 
C1 = BLER = E11 + E21 + E31; E31 are uncorrectable by C1 decoder
C2 = E22 (does NOT include E12)
CU = E32; E32 are uncorrectable by C2 decoder

#3

I figured that I might be worrying too much. But I am not used to CD-R burns that look like that. My Liteon LTR-52327S can burn those discs at 52X with C1 Max = 7 and C1 Avg of no more than 0.50. I was not considering RMA’ing the Plextor drive, since I can simply avoid using the Plextor drive for CD-R burns–just use the Liteon LTR-52327S for the CD-R burns it truly specializes in, and use the Plextor drive for DVD burning/DVD reading/CD reading.


#4

tlotz,

While your test burn may be technically good I am offering the following information strictly as a comparison. You be the judge.

The following scan was made with a PX716SA, TLA#0304, Nero CD/DVD Speed using a Taiyo Yuden type 1 disc and read in Plex Tools 2.20.





#5

Thank you very much rjih. Fortunately for me, you just have proven my point. My Liteon LTR-52327S can run circles around that burn. You read your disc at 8X CLV in Plextools Pro, I read mine at 24X CAV in Plextools Pro. So to make an accurate comparison (your drive versus mine on the same media at the same speed), I re-tested the disc at 8X CLV so I could have a valid comparison. Below are my results with the disc read at 8X CLV. My results are slightly higher than yours, but not significantly different. Therefore, my drive is good since it is producing the same poor quality burn that your drive is. Some may think I am a bit picky–but when good CD-RW drives can easily produce much better scans, how can anyone call this write quality to top quality CD-R media good? I would call it “acceptable”, but not good. Plextor obviously has a lot of work to do with the drive’s firmware–I would bet that the Plextor Premium would not have such poor quality when writing to this media! I guess since this drive is a DVD burner, Plextor has focused all of their efforts on making DVD quality good, figuring that we wouldn’t notice that the CD-R quality is less than what it should be.




#6

You do realize that:

(Post taken from CDFreaks)

A written CD-R disc will always have some C1 errors; C1 errors are easily corrected by the drive’s error correction capabilities. The next level of errors is C2, while C2 errors could also be corrected by most drive’s error correction capabilities; they are not wanted on a good quality disc. A good disc should not contain any C2 errors, and preferably have an average C1 error amount of below 2.0 for the best discs, or at least below 10.0 averages for good quality discs. After C2 errors, there are only un-correctable errors that will make a disc unusable.


#7

tlotz,

How about posting the scan of a data disc created in Nero CD/DVD speed that was burned on the Liteon and read with the PX-716 in Plex Tools. I was curious how my PX-716SA compared to another burner so I burned a data disc with a Yamaha CRW-F1S (I know it is old) for comparison. That san is shown below.




#8

Yes, I know what C1/C2 errors are. I also know that good CD-RW drives can produce much better results. I am just used to much better burn quality, so “acceptable” just isn’t good enough. It is a matter of opinion, but this kind of quality I doubt is typical on this media on good quality drives. Even my old Plextor 48/24/48A drives which got RMA’d because of another problem, produced C1 average rates below 1.0 (using Kprobe at Max speed) on the TY CD-R media. Also, C1 averages vary quite a bit depending on what speed the disc is read back at when it is tested. I was wrong about one thing; low speed write quality tests do not show the poorer quality of the Plextor burns very well–running at high speed produces that spike at the end of the disc that is not well defined when scanning at lower speed. Scanning at higher speed simulates real world conditions; would you be caught dead reading back your disc at 8X to get to your data? No, I don’t think so. I am too used to two years of Kprobe/CD Doctor scans all at the Maximum drive speed. One final thing: my 716SA has an unusually fast 48X burn speed. My old 48/24/48A Plextor drive would have taken 3+ minutes (@48X) to burn my 79:30 disc image; my 716SA takes 2:45! That did impress me, but I’d rather wait 20 more seconds to get better write quality. My Liteon LTR-52327S drive took 2:35 with the same disc image and the same media burned at 52X, producing much better write quality. 10 seconds is not significantly different and shows that the PX-716 is fast for a 48X CD-R burner!


#9

I already did that with the Liteon, see my post above. I found that the Liteon results were not significantly different than yours because the higher read speed (52X on Liteon w/Kprobe) or 24X CAV on the Plextools Pro makes the disc produce that high spike at the end of the disc, resulting in my dissatisfaction with the burn. Attached is the Kprobe at Max speed results of the same image burned to the same TY meda at 52X. Compare it to the Kprobe scan at the beginning of the thread (using the Max speed to better emulate real world disc reading), and you will know why I am unhappy. Nevertheless, I will post the Liteon results read back on Plextor at 8X CLV and 24X CAV to better show what I mean. One other note: this Liteon drive (when it was newer) used to produce better results–I used to get C1 average rates (when read back in Kprobe at Max speed) in the 0.2–0.3 range. The Liteon drive is over one year old, and seems to be declining slightly in quality.



#10

Below are my results of the same media burned on the Liteon LTR-52327S at 52X and scanned on the Plextor 716SA using Plextools Pro and read back at 24X CAV. Compare these results to the above 24X CAV scan that reflected the same media being burned on the Plextor PX-716SA and you will see a big difference.




#11

Below are my results of the same media burned on the Liteon LTR-52327S at 52X and scanned on the Plextor 716SA using Plextools Pro and read back at 8X CLV. This scan is not significantly different than any other scans of this media that were burned on the PX-716 and read back at this 8X CLV speed. The 8X CLV speed simply isn’t fast enough to show the problems with the PX-716 burn quality on this media. The 24X CAV speed on Plextools Pro or the Max speed in Kprobe are fast enough to be used to illustrate the quality differences in CD-R burns (and also emulate real world usage), that is why 24X CAV is what is usually (as far as I’ve seen) used with Plextools Pro to measure CD-R burn quality.




#12

And it doesn’t! You have every reason to be dissatisfied with your PX-716’s CD-R writing quality.


#13

I would also guess that the Plextor Premium has write quality to this media that is similar and possibly better than that of my Liteon drive. What I have learned with this thread and some more reading I have done is that DVD burners do not have as good CD-R writing quality as CD burners do. It seems quite apparent that the optical drive manufacturers focus much more on DVD burning when they design their DVD burners; consequently they let CD-R burning quality/capabilities suffer. For the time being, I will need to continue to use my Liteon LTR-52327S for CD-R burning, until Plextor greatly improves CD-R burning quality with a firmware update (hopefully this will happen in the upcoming 1.05 firmware).


#14

My PX-712A burns CD-Rs not any worse than my Premium; but apparently the PX-716 is a different beast.