PX-716SA and DVD+R DL, is it time for an RMA?

vbimport

#1

I am shocked and horrified at what my PX-716SA drive (firmware 1.06, TLA #0304) does with Verbatim 2.4X DVD+R DL (MKM-001-000) media! This is the best DVD+R DL media on the market, so I am not inclined to think it’s the media. I have burned 2 out of 3 discs from the 3-pack I bought from Best Buy today–I would have tried this media a long time ago, if it wasn’t so high priced ($24.99 for 3 discs). Attached to this post are the 4X scans I made with the drive. I will post the 6X scans I did later. My understanding is that that the PIF spike to 12 is at the layer change–should I be concerned with that? That’s my biggest issue. Is there something I can do to make the second layer look like the first (i.e. change setting, disable PoweRec)? PoweRec was enabled. The pattern is in both the PIE and PIF–higher PIE and PIF start before the layer change at the 4 GB mark, and continue through the second layer. The first layer (prior to the 4 GB mark) looks great. Any clues as to what is going on? I have one more disc in the box, should I use it with PoweRec disabled, or should I use it for the drive’s self test?


#2

@tlotz. Most of the dual layer scans I have seen or done myself have had PIF spikes over the so called limits of 4, around the layer change area and the big thing is “Does it work OK in your stand alone player”?? As you know PIE is no biggie until it gets over 280 so really until more people post scans of Dual layer burns I at least don’t have a feel for what’s good and bad.I have been looking at DL scans for other drives and it seems the same for them as well.
BTW. Where is the other SUM 1 and can you make them on a 10 scale in Plex tools so people like me can see them. :stuck_out_tongue:


#3

Here are the 6X scans for the same Verbatim/MKM 2.4X DVD+R DL media (different disc, same 3-pack). This disc was burned first, which is why I tried lowering the speed to 4X. I realize that this media is rated at 2.4X, but it was my understanding that good results can be obtained on this media all the way up to 6X–it is the only DVD+R DL media that can handle the full 6X the drive offers (if I not mistaken).






#4

Thanks for your reply, crossg. I am in the process of testing read performance on the 4X burned disc. My LG DVD burner reads the disc perfectly, which means that my Sony DVD players should like it. I seriously doubt my Sony DVD players will have a problem with the 4X disc, but I have yet to test the disc. My LG DVD burner could not properly read (read error) the Verbatim 16X DVD+R MCC004 discs that my RMA’d TLA #0203 716SA drive burned (this is a different 716SA drive)–so reading discs in another manufactorer’s drive helps to assess readability more than reading it back on the Plextor drive.


#5

tlotz,

My scan of a Verbatim 2.4x DVD+R DL burned at 4x is here, http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=964537&postcount=818. That disc doesn’t play in my Sony DVP-NC685V, but plays fine in my 716UF.

Is your Sony progressive scan? I’m interested in seeing if your DL disc plays in your Sony.


#6

I currently have two Sony DVD players–both are single disc progressive scan units that advertise full DVD+R/+RW/-R/-RW disc compatibility. One was bought for Christmas '04, and one for Christmas '03. One is a Sony DVP-NS725P and one is a DVP-NS575P. I will get back to you on this issue once I test my discs with the two Sony DVD players. Both players have played every disc DVD+R,+RW,-R, and -RW disc I have burned on the 716SA so far (these are my first DVD+R DL discs, so I haven’t tested them yet with the Sony DVD players).


#7

@tlotz. Think it was drpino that mentioned somewhere in the Plextor Quality scans that he used DVD Decryptor to burn his Dual layer Verbatim and his turned out well. I had a look for the post but couldn’t find it. Maybe have a look see and see if you can find it. Might help. :slight_smile:


#8

Well, I have your answer redsandvb. Both the 4X and 6X burned discs play in both Sony players. I haven’t watched both discs extensively, but just played them on players and looked for skipping and other problems. I, too, used DVD Decrypter–except that I used DVD Decrypter only for ripping to an ISO file, then I used Nero to burn the 7.78 GB ISO file. The neat thing is that since DVD Decrypter creates an identical unencrypted copy of the original disc (unlike DVD Shrink), both Sony DVD players thought the DVD+R DL copies were the original disc. In other words, the Sony resume feature which “remembers” where it was on a particular disc, doesn’t know the difference between the original disc and the copies and resumes to the same place as it did with the original disc when I put a DVD+R DL copy in either Sony DVD player. How old is your DVD player, redsandvb? Is it a newer progressive scan unit? I should look up the spec on your DVD Player, but I’m a bit busy now. Does your Sony DVD player advertise compatibility with DVD+R discs? I realize that some DVD+R discs may still not play on players like mine that are supposed to be multiformat (DVD+R/+RW/-R/-RW) read compatible. I set the book type in Nero to DVD-ROM–I knew to do this because it has been said many times in these forums that you should do this for better DVD player readability. Did you set the book type to DVD-ROM?


#9

I used Nero for my burns and DVD Decrypter for the ripping–that I assume makes no difference, or does it?


#10

Interesting–so you use ISO write mode in DVD Decrypter to burn an ISO file you just wrote in DVD Decrypter using ISO read mode. Just started using DVD Decrypter when I was burning these DVD+R DL discs–my previous experience was with DVD Shrink. So, is there any advantage to burning in DVD Decrypter (vs Nero 6.6.0.12)? I noticed you can set the Book Type under Tools->Drive. I just intuitively burned the ISO file in Nero, like I have been doing so with any other ISO file. I’ll burn my last disc with DVD Decrypter, and see if it makes a difference.


#11

Here is the scans of the third Verbatim DVD+R DL disc in the box, burned at 4X. This disc burned better than the other disc burned at 4X. I have reduced the scale on my PIF to make it easier to read. I’ve also included a Beta Jitter scan this time. I will include a new PIF scan (with lower scale for better readability) of the first 6X burned disc later. My conclusion now is that my 4X quality is decent–I found enough variation in the two discs burned at 4X to indicate that there probably is a large variation in the quality of the Verbatim media itself. In other words, the PIF spike I am concerned with is considerably smaller (PIF = 7 vs PIF = 12) in the third disc, so it seems logical that, with a better batch of media, that that PIF max could get reduced to 4, which would be within spec. I have also found that 6X burning of this media is not feasable at this time. What I don’t get is why some reviewers (Ian@CDRLabs) get such good results burning these discs at 6X–different firmware, maybe? I sometimes think that Verbatim sends the reviewers better quality media than what they sell to us, the consumers. Given what I spent for these discs, my discs and my drive for that matter should be as good as the reviewers. But, with the PIE/PIF on that first disc, I just cannot justify 6X burns on this media at this time. After all, it is 2.4X media! I need to post Beta Jitter and TA tests for the 6X disc–I have run the TA test on the second layer on this disc, and have found that Plextools told me “Bad.” So that’s a good indication that Jitter also stinks on this disc, which also why 6X burning just is a bad idea on this media! The TA Tests returned nothing but “Very Good” and “Good” for both 4X discs.







#12

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=961955&postcount=807

MKM 001 @ 6X…plays perfectly fine in my standalone.


#13

Hi drpino–could you post a PIE and PIF scan of the same disc read back in your other 716A drive? It would be nice to see if there are any significant differences in the way both drives read back that disc. I am now working on another 6X disc–it is burning in DVD Decrypter now. I bought another 3-pack of the media. CompUSA has the media cheaper–for $19.99 for a 3-pack of the Verbatim (MKM 001) 2.4X DVD+R DL discs. I was at CompUSA before I bought the first 3-pack of discs from Best Buy for $5 more–CompUSA appeared to be completely wiped out. It just turns out that this CompUSA hides the Verbatim DVD+R DL discs in the cage, unlike all of their other DVD media–so I missed it the first time I was there. Now I can make Best Buy give me the $5 price difference and match the CompUSA price. So if you have a CompUSA nearby, get the Verbatim discs from there–you’ll save $5. There is one nice result of buying the first discs from Best Buy–both 3-packs will have been bought from different stores, which increases the chance that both 3-packs will be from different batches of the same media. Incidentally, if anyone wants lower quality (assuming they are not Mitsubishi) DVD+R DL discs, CompUSA has a 25-pack of Memorex DVD+R DL for $99.99. I would guess these are Riteks, but who knows…


#14

Like I said, I’m working on another 6X MKM 001 DVD+R disc now. Here is the FE/TE and the relevant part of the DVD Decrypter log.





#15

It may be time for an RMA. The 6X disc just coastered. I hate Plextor!! It is ridiculous to make the consumer beta test their drives. In short, to be sure you have a good drive, you must test it with every type of media known to man (DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+R DL, not released DVD-R DL, DVD+RW, DVD-RW, CD-R, and CD-RW), and then, if you get good results on all types of media (using high quality media of course), you may have a good drive. I am not doing that again! This is not my first rotten experience with Plextor–Plextor screwed me with the 48/24/48A. If I get an RMA of my 716SA, it will not be a refurbished drive, but a new one. I know what Plextor USA’s policy is, but I will threaten them with Better Business Bureau involvement if they do not do what I want!


#16

Let’s see, bought it around Christmas '03, DVD+/-R, RW right on the sticker, and booktyped to ROM.
Do yours play past the layer change ok?

I’ve read that DVD Decrypter will put the layer change at the identical point it is on the original while Nero may or may not. Don’t remember where I read that though.


#17

tlotz, how do you know it coastered?

sorry to hear about your bad experiences…every manufacturer has bad drives come off the line. i’m just surprised about all the “horror” stories i read here since both of my drives are early serials/TLAs and have worked flawlessly for more than 3 months of heavy use (ripping, burning, scanning).


#18

It has now coastered 2 out of 3 of the discs in this 3-pack! Each disc was burned at 6X. The disc is “coastered” because my two DVD drives will not read it–it just spins up endlessly and locks up Windows. I will not tolerate this. New development: I need some advice here. I just called Microcenter where I got this drive and spoke to a manager. They have agreed to even exchange the drive with a new one! That means no refurbished Plextor garbage! Should I go for this deal??? I need some good advice here. I was willing to tolerate the CD-R write quality issue–but I cannot tolerate a drive that is coastering good expensive DVD+R DL media! It is a DVD burner, so I bought it to burn DVDs, so I cannot tolerate this.


#19

by all means, take up the offer. hope you get a good one this time.

what other DVD drives are you trying to read them in? are they decent readers? are they capable of reading burned double layer discs? some arent’. have you run scans yet?

take a deep breath and relax a bit…it’s just an optical drive, not a pacemaker or dialysis machine.


#20

here you go…but they’re done at lowest accuracy as i can’t be bothered to rescan the whole disc at high accuracy again…

<table class=“caption” spacing=“0” id=“Table2” border=“0” width=“100%”> <tbody><tr><td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Drive Info</td> <td> </td> <td colspan=“2”>ID:0 PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A V1.06 (#133475)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top”>Test Settings</td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Read Speed:</td> <td align=“left”>2X CLV</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Test Interval Length:</td> <td align=“left”>Lowest Accuracy</td> </tr> <tr> <td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top”>Test Result</td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Disc Info:</td> <td align=“left”>HOUSEOFFLYINGDAGGERS DVD-ROM, 8144 MB (HOUSEOFFLYINGDAGGERS)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td colspan=“2”>
<table class=“caption” spacing=“0” id=“Table3” border=“0” width=“100%”> <tbody><tr> <td width=“86”> </td> <td align=“right”>Avg</td> <td align=“right”>Max</td> <td align=“right”>Total</td> <td width=“60”> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width=“86”>PIE</td> <td align=“right”>0.88</td> <td align=“right”>29</td> <td align=“right”>230118</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width=“86”>POF</td> <td align=“right”>-</td> <td align=“right”>-</td> <td align=“right”>0</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=“5”> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top”>Test Duration</td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>0:10:31</td> <td align=“left”>
</td></tr></tbody> </table>
<table class=“caption” spacing=“0” id=“Table2” border=“0” width=“100%”> <tbody><tr><td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Drive Info</td> <td> </td> <td colspan=“2”>ID:0 PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A V1.06 (#133475)</td> </tr> <tr> <td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top”>Test Settings</td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Read Speed:</td> <td align=“left”>2X CLV</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Test Interval Length:</td> <td align=“left”>Lowest Accuracy</td> </tr> <tr> <td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top”>Test Result</td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>Disc Info:</td> <td align=“left”>HOUSEOFFLYINGDAGGERS DVD-ROM, 8144 MB (HOUSEOFFLYINGDAGGERS)
</td> </tr> <tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td colspan=“2”>
<table class=“caption” spacing=“0” id=“Table3” border=“0” width=“100%”> <tbody><tr> <td width=“86”> </td> <td align=“right”>Avg</td> <td align=“right”>Max</td> <td align=“right”>Total</td> <td width=“60”> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width=“86”>PIF</td> <td align=“right”>0.03</td> <td align=“right”>5</td> <td align=“right”>6732</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td width=“86”>POF</td> <td align=“right”>-</td> <td align=“right”>-</td> <td align=“right”>0</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan=“5”> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class=“item” align=“right” valign=“top”>Test Duration</td> <td> </td> <td align=“left” valign=“top” width=“20%”>0:10:59</td> <td align=“left”>
</td></tr></tbody> </table>