Problems with TY media

vbimport

#1

Hey everyone,

I’ve been noticing a rise in problems with TY media as of late, and I’m trying to find out how many other people are experiencing them. I’ve run into the following problems personally:

  1. Poor bonding on DVDs. Sometimes the discs seperate on their own, sometimes when dropped, and nearly every time I do a bonding test. This occurs on all DVD media from Taiyo Yuden, ranging from their TYG01 to TYG03 and YUDEN00T02 (haven’t tested YUDEN000T01 or YUDEN000T03 yet. Both silver laquer and inkjet printable surfaces seem to be affected by this, and it occurs in both Premium and Value lines of their products.

  2. Poor inkjet surface quality. Aside from being one of the longer inkjet surfaces to take to dry, it always seems to be less crisp then inkjet surfaces from say Verbatim, and even more so compared to RiData’s Hub Printable white inkjet media (which is by far the best surface I’ve seen, but the media itself is too unpredictable to use!). Furthermore, on the 16x white inkjet printable discs, the surface appears to not be able to accept a standard Primera Laminator film properly. The film peels and lifts up at the edges of the disc. This may be caused by slight warping in the disc, but I am unable to test for this sort of thing, so I can’t be certain.

  3. Poor quality and compatability with 16x DVD-Rs. Taiyo Yuden is a premium name disc, which we spend extra $$$ on, because we expect it to burn in every drive, and be playable afterwards. The results I CONSISTANTLY see with my own 16x DVD-Rs are almost always horrible. It has been pointed out to me that when burned on the right drives, the media is good… that’s great, but this is supposed to be TAIYO YUDEN media, and not Daxon or Prodisc media (which by the way, seem to be better supported for 16x DVD-Rs then Taiyo Yuden is right now!). Even Plextor, who SPECIALLY optomizes their drives to TY because they use TY for their own brand of media, is having problems getting it to work as well as they’d want it to.

If you are having ANY problems with TY, PLEASE report them here!! I do not believe I’m the only person experiencing these issues.

Thanks!


#2

Imo the bonding issue isn’t that interesting. I used a knife a while ago and even if TY discs (TYG02+02 & YUDEN02+03) were among the easier to seperate it was a pretty close race and i wouldn’t say TY is any worse than other. I never saw a disc fall apart except from that day. (Only some worthless Datawrite discs weren’t easy to seperate)

I agree on the 16x issue. TY isn’t anything special here. Still decent and i only saw one Plextor (YUDEN03 burned with 1640) that didn’t play well.

Since the (TY) TYG02 + YUDEN02 printable are worlds ahead of competition in write quality i don’t care about the printing. I buy them for the excellent writing quality/compatibility and print them for decoration :smiley:


#3

No problems whatsoever in any of these areas here. I use G02, T02 printables and G03 and T02 non-printable.


#4

I have noticed that with my TYGO2 media the bonding adhesive is present at the discs’ outside edge and feels quite tacky – like it hasn’t hardened yet. Other brands including MCC don’t feel nearly as tacky there. The TY bonding adhesive isn’t actually oozing out or presenting an issue here, though.

My theory is that TY may use a bonding adhesive which doesn’t harden as fast as other brands and perhaps this has positive benefits for long term stability. An adhesive which drys hard may be too brittle and unforgiving for the flexing and DVD is subjected to during normal insertion/removal from a typical case.

If this theory is correct, it may be that TY decided it was better to create a disc that may be more vunerable to delamination early in its life (not that I have ever heard of a TY delaminating except when forced or dropped), but will be less likely to delamintate due to hardened adhesive years later.

Sure would be nice to hear an opinion from a TY company engineer… :bow:


#5

To these sorts of questions, I often say that you need to sign an NDA in order to even get the NAME of a receptionist at Taiyo Yuden… but in reality, I don’t think TY HAS receptionists even :stuck_out_tongue:

The point is, they don’t talk unless you’re their contact at a company that orders hundreds of millions of discs from them… and even then they don’t say a lot.


#6
  • Agree with you, very rough print surface if compare with other brand… took 1 day to completely dry…

  • Found some bad disc on latest spindle I have bought (20% of batch was burning with high spikes)


#7

I feel its sad for there to be any sloppy mistakes like bad bonding and have mediocre to okay media at 16x from a company that is built and known for quality.

I couldnt speak on their inkjet stuff. haven’t tried it.


#8

Just so you know, when most people refer to “bonding”, they’re referring to how well the disc is bonded around the hub area. Except in extreme cases, ow rough the edges are really has no bearing in quality.


#9

Have not experienced any delamination with either the CD-R or T02 DVD+R media.

Have had an occasional elevated total PIE or PIF spike now and then, but not regularly enough to call a spindle bad (except for some Meritline mismarked CD-R crap I received twice from them. Will not do business with them again!). Once I saw an obvious defect, as if a Philips screwdriver was pounded onto the surface causing a pinpoint pit. Never any dust or fingerprints.

Have not tried the 16x rated speed TY’s since the 8x’s work so darn well in both my Plextor 716A and BenQ1640.

I have noted that the TY T02’s do feel less substantial (flimsier?) than Verbatim 16x DVD+R. How this relates to longevity remains to be seen.

My guess is that a production run or two had either substandard chemicals, improper mix of chemicals or human error caused the rash of defects some have found. Tracking the serial numbers and the countries people reside in would provide more info as to the widespread/localized nature of the problem.

I just received a couple hundred more TY’s and will observe for defects. If the Peter Principle holds true, I’ll have a bunch of defects in this batch!


#10

Just so you know, when most people refer to “bonding”, they’re referring to how well the disc is bonded around the hub area. Except in extreme cases, ow rough the edges are really has no bearing in quality.

The disc MUST be bonded on the outer edge too… what else would hold the lamination together? The images I have seen of seperated discs make it appear that the dye layer area has no adhesive, so the bonding HAS TO be done in the hub and outer rim areas…

Also, I wasn’t mentioning “rough edges” but a tacky substance on the edge of the outer rim. :)<!-- / message -->


#11

So far, these alledged TY problems fall mostly into the “online myth” area. I’ve never seen one report from a person who actually owned any of this troubled media.

I also can’t help wondering if some value line media might have been the origen of these rumors.

Some people love to tear down a company that has such a good reputation, but so far we’ve seen nothing but rumor. Things like “inkjet surface quality” are pretty subjective, and probably should be ignored due the high probability of user errors.

As for problems with 16x media, you cannot assume that the problem is not with the burner. Anyway, the G03 that I have works great with NEC and LG.

So I’m hoping that people will avoid “speculation”, and stick to posting what they know from experience.


#12

Some photos of the inkjet problems would be interesting.
But I think TY is still better than Ritek anyway…


#13

In my experience, Dolphinius_Rex is a reliable source of information. I would not consider his questions an attempt to do anything other than to find out if others have any problems.

All my TY has been top quality, TYG02, TYG01, and Burnmaster YUDEN000 T02. I always attributed the “edge tackiness” to the tape wrap on the Value Line packaging. BTW, in the past, value line had a double stamped serial, some say to indicate “non-premium”. My last few stacks did not have this.


#14

Aah a new commer. First hello.

So I’m hoping that people will avoid “speculation”, and stick to posting what they know from experience.

And that’s what I exactly did.
But let me put up a link:
http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20515&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0
Ugly picture isn’t it .
Okay you can debate that I shouldn’t have used a screwdrive but then again it shouldn’t be possible because the DVD-R standards specify bonding over the whole area !!!

Also one of the same batch of FUJI’s actually fell a part when taking it out of the case.(I should have the top layer of that one still !)

Unlikely because I experienced this tackiness also on some jewel cased TY’s I have.


#15

I haven’t had any bonding issues with TY discs thus far. I’ve been able to separate a Fujifilm 8x DVD-R with my thumbnail, similar to dakhaas’ experience. The only difference is that the top layer came off with the reflective coat. However, I’ve never had a TY disc separate on me on its own. (A slight disclaimer : I keep long nails on one hand to play the guitar. The thumbnail in question is very hard - I often use it to open packets of crisps. So it was not normal thumbnail pressure applied to prise that disc open.)

I’ve used T01s, T02s, TYG01s and TYG02 so far. A handful of them have had high PIF values but otherwise most have had excellent burn quality.

On TY’s 16x burn quality, I understand that these discs started to appear on sale in the middle to the end of last year. Many drive manufacturers already had firmware support for both T03 and TYG03 in existing firmware releases used on drives even before that. That has to mean that they used early engineering samples of those discs to tune their firmware. I don’t think those engineering samples were exactly the same stuff we are now getting for sale. So the older drives have probably got firmware tuned wrongly for 16x TY discs. You can’t really blame TY for that. It’s up to the drive manufacturers to tweak 16x TY burns in their firmware to suit the retail discs for their older drives. The newer drives are more likely to be tuned to the retail TY 16x discs we get now and should not have a problem burning those.

That is my theory of course. Feel free to disagree.


#16

For the record, posting links to threads about other people’s experiences is not the same thing as personal experience. The link posted by Dakhass is relating to one batch of old G01 media, I see nothing else about TY specifically on that thread. The thread itself is from last year.

But anyway, so we have one old batch of TY G01 that appears to have had a problem with bonding. Anything more recent or relevant to today’s media?

While I hate to have to bring this up, I also wonder if some of the folks who like to start these threads might also have some commercial/financial motivations to see TY sales drop.

Sorry to be a poop, but I smell something not quite right with the starting of this thread. And I still don’t see anything other than a few rare problems being reported, most of which might be due to things other than TY media itself.


#17

Nothing comes close to YUDEN000T02 for quality and reliablity. I have recently bought a couple of Canon printers and the results are excellent - dry to touch as soon as printed.


#18

Bottom line, NO media is immune to some problems, even the high and mighty TY. Although I don’t use printable discs, I have read for some time that the surface of TY printable discs is worse than most. To the 16x discs, it seems they aren’t quite up to the level of their 4x and 8x discs, but it’s still fairly good media. For 16x media, it seems that Verbatim/MCC usually gives better results. TY may not have the best bonding but I haven’t really heard of this being much, if any, of an issue except under intentional stress to the disc or very poor handling. Whether the bonding will be an issue over a longer period of time such as 10 years, that remains to be seen and I believe that time is the only completely accurate test of that. If you put alot of faith in the C’T (or whatever it is) tests and are concerned about long-term stability, perhaps TY shouldn’t be your first choice. But I haven’t seen the bonding to cause much issue thus far.


#19

I see nothing of the sort. As [B]Chas0039[/B] mentioned, [B]Dolphinius_rex[/B] is a valuable source of information, he doesn’t post a lot at cdfreaks but he’s a well-known person from many regulars here. I don’t doubt that he’s only looking for user feedback.


Personally out of 225 TYG02 discs (100 unbranded/OEM and 125 Verbatim-branded), I’ve had only one discs falling apart after i’ve dropped it (which is a better performance than Maxell LOL), but I’ve had about 8-9 discs with a “squeecking hub” and a related degradation in PIE in the first 500MB. I consider my TYG02 discs as fragile.

Nothing of the sort with my YUDEN00T02, but I have much less T02 discs here (50 Plextor-branded and 10 TDK-branded). They do feel more sturdy to me, I may be wrong.

Anyway I prefer to use different discs than TY, because they’re not scratch-resistant enough to my taste. That’s just me I guess. Perfect scans are not the most important thing in my book, I’m less and less impressed with ultra-clean PIF figures. I somehow miss the fun of it LOL, but I’m more interested in actual use of my discs, now, than in their original PIE/PIF scans. :slight_smile:

As for T03/G03, I have no experience.


#20

For completeness Dakhaas (Cdfreaks ) is RJW (Cdrlabs !).
So I’m posting my own experience. And I think I also say in that topic that I had problems with 8x TY’s as well ! Not breaking but a very questionable bonded layer from the inside.

The link posted by Dakhass is relating to one batch of old G01 media, I see nothing else about TY specifically on that thread. The thread itself is from last year.

But anyway, so we have one old batch of TY G01 that appears to have had a problem with bonding. Anything more recent or relevant to today’s media?

You didn’t read the full topic
But let me quote my own lines which you should take a look at.

Which I mean that there have been reports from Japan about bonding issues with 2x TY dvd-r media.

Now understand that handling in a disc laminator has more stress then the normal use if I find the disc allready questionable for normal use. I can understand that such disc can seperate in 2 halves easilly.

Also TY isn’t the only manufacturer with this problem.

While I hate to have to bring this up, I also wonder if some of the folks who like to start these threads might also have some commercial/financial motivations to see TY sales drop.

Nope I would be happy if there was a simple good media option but it seems that allways good dvd recordables are inexistant.

Now it becomes comprimising between these which all have there pro’s and cons.

TDK TTH01 Scratchproof- Hard to get and extremely prices
MAM-E/A gold - Disc’s comming from a questionable manufacturer.
TY - Good media except that there is a higher then normal failure rate because of bonding issues.
Verbatim (MCC)- On occasions nasty incosistency screw ups.
Ohh and for the maxell pro fans the stuff is allmost inexistant in europe so no option !

Sorry to be a poop, but I smell something not quite right with the starting of this thread. And I still don’t see anything other than a few rare problems being reported, most of which might be due to things other than TY media itself.

Sorry but seeing who posted it I wouldn’t say this. This guy sells huge ammounts of TY in canada. In other words he would be shooting itself huge in his footh if he was only interested in the money !!! No we should be happy that there are people at compannies who do care about product quality !