Problems with disc to disc copy. HELP

vbimport

#1

i just purchased a 16x ripping drive (liteon 1633s) and was hoping to use it for disc to disc copies. when i did transfer tests they were perfect. at every point along the curve they were higher than my burning drive.

when i tried 1 to 1 copies however it goes something like this. the liteon spins up and fills the buffer. the NEC2500 spins up and writes the lead in then the liteon spins down and the top buffer goes to half and then the bottom buffer goes back and forth and with the nero burning reveal the drive burns at less than 4x and takes over 15minutes…

i have a different system and it is able to go disc to disc no problem but i cannot get this one to work.

so far i have tried :

  1. nec master 1633 slave jumpered
  2. 1633 master nec slave cable select
  3. uninstalling the Intel application accelerator
  4. upping from 6.3.1.15 to 6.6.0.1

none of these changes made any differences at all so i am completely at wits end.

the funny thing is if i use my external usb 48161 I can go disc to disc but i cannot burn at 8x only 6x since the external is limited to 8x bandwidth for ripping.

here is my config:
Nero InfoTool 2.21

Drive Information

Drive : LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1633S
Type : DVD±R/RW DL Recorder
Firmware Version : BS41
Buffer Size : 2 MB
Date : 2004-10-29
Serial Number
Vendor Specific : 2004/10/29 18:28
Drive Letter : D:
Location : 1:0
Mechanism : Tray
Read Speed : 12.0 , 6.0 , 1.0 X
Write Speed : 4.0 , 2.4 X

Read CD Text : Yes
Return C2 Pointers : Yes
Read CD-R : Yes
Read CD-RW : Yes
Read DVD-ROM : Yes
Read DVD-RAM : No
Read DVD-R : Yes
Read DVD-RW : Yes
Read DVD+R : Yes
Read DVD+RW : Yes
Read DVD+R DL : Yes
Read Digital Audio : Yes
Read CD+G : Yes
Read VideoCD : Yes

Write CD-R : Yes
Write CD-RW : Yes
Write DVD-R : Yes
Write DVD-RW : Yes
Write DVD+R : Yes
Write DVD+RW : Yes
Write DVD+R DL : Yes
Write DVD-RAM : No
Buffer Underrun Protection : Yes
Mount Rainier : No
Modes : Packet, TAO, DAO, SAO, RAW SAO, RAW DAO, RAW SAO 16, RAW SAO 96, RAW DAO 16, RAW DAO 96

Region Protection Control : RPC II
Region : 1
Changes User : 4
Changes Vendor : 4

Drive Information

Drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-2500A
Type : DVD±R/RW Recorder
Firmware Version : 1.07
Buffer Size : 2 MB
Date : ?
Serial Number : 42JDB77S211
Vendor Specific : HV2B4 42JDB77S21
Drive Letter : G:
Location : 1:1
Mechanism : Tray
Read Speed : 40 , 32 , 24 , 20 , 16 , 10 , 8 , 4 X
Write Speed : 32 , 24 , 20 , 16 , 8 , 4 X

Read CD Text : Yes
Return C2 Pointers : Yes
Read CD-R : Yes
Read CD-RW : Yes
Read DVD-ROM : Yes
Read DVD-RAM : No
Read DVD-R : Yes
Read DVD-RW : Yes
Read DVD+R : Yes
Read DVD+RW : Yes
Read DVD+R DL : No
Read Digital Audio : Yes
Read CD+G : Yes
Read VideoCD : Yes

Write CD-R : Yes
Write CD-RW : Yes
Write DVD-R : Yes
Write DVD-RW : Yes
Write DVD+R : Yes
Write DVD+RW : Yes
Write DVD+R DL : No
Write DVD-RAM : No
Buffer Underrun Protection : Yes
Mount Rainier : No
Modes : Packet, TAO, DAO, SAO, RAW SAO, RAW SAO 96, RAW DAO 96

Region Protection Control : RPC I
Region : All
Changes User
Changes Vendor

Drive Information

Drive : LITE-ON COMBO LTC-48161H
Type : Combo Drive
Firmware Version : KH0R
Buffer Size : 2 MB
Date : ?
Serial Number
Vendor Specific : Aug31 ,2004
Drive Letter : H:
Location : 2:0
Mechanism : Tray
Read Speed : 48 X
Write Speed : 48 , 40 , 32 , 24 , 16 , 12 , 8 , 4 X

Read CD Text : Yes
Return C2 Pointers : Yes
Read CD-R : Yes
Read CD-RW : Yes
Read DVD-ROM : Yes
Read DVD-RAM : No
Read DVD-R : Yes
Read DVD-RW : Yes
Read DVD+R : Yes
Read DVD+RW : Yes
Read DVD+R DL : Yes
Read Digital Audio : Yes
Read CD+G : Yes
Read VideoCD : Yes

Write CD-R : Yes
Write CD-RW : Yes
Write DVD-R : No
Write DVD-RW : No
Write DVD+R : No
Write DVD+RW : No
Write DVD+R DL : No
Write DVD-RAM : No
Buffer Underrun Protection : Yes
Mount Rainier : Yes
Modes : Packet, TAO, DAO, SAO, RAW SAO, RAW SAO 16, RAW SAO 96, RAW DAO 16, RAW DAO 96

Region Protection Control : RPC II
Region : 1
Changes User : 4
Changes Vendor : 4

Interface Information

Adapter 1

Description : Primary IDE Channel

Driver
Description : System32\DRIVERS\IdeChnDr.sys
Company : Intel Corporation
Version : 2.3.0.2160, 10/01/2002
Description : Intel Application Accelerator Driver

Attached Devices
Description : Master: WDC WD1200JB-32EVA0
Type : Disk Drive
DMA : On
Description : Slave: WDC WD2000JB-00GVA0
Type : Disk Drive
DMA : Off

Adapter 2

Description : Secondary IDE Channel

Driver
Description : System32\DRIVERS\IdeChnDr.sys
Company : Intel Corporation
Version : 2.3.0.2160, 10/01/2002
Description : Intel Application Accelerator Driver

Attached Devices
Description : Master: LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1633S
Type : CD-Rom Drive
DMA : On
Autorun : On
Description : Slave: _NEC DVD_RW ND-2500A633S
Type : CD-Rom Drive
DMA : Off
Autorun : On

Adapter 3

Description : Intel PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller

Driver
Description : System32\DRIVERS\usbehci.sys
Company : Microsoft Corporation
Version : 5.00.2195.5652
Description : EHCI eUSB Miniport Driver

Attached Devices
Description : LITE-ON COMBO LTC-48161H USB Device
Type : CD-Rom Drive
Autorun : On

Software Information

Operating System : Windows 2000 Professional (5.00.2195 Service Pack 3)
DirectX : DirectX 9.0b

Description : Nero Burning ROM
Version : 6, 3, 1, 15
Company : Ahead Software AG
Version Check : Ok

Description : Nero StartSmart
Version : 1, 0, 1, 18
Company : Ahead Software AG

Description : NeroVision Express
Version : 2,1,2,16
Company : Ahead Software AG

Description : Nero ShowTime
Version : 1, 5, 0, 31
Company : Ahead software AG

Description : Nero Recode 2
Version : 2, 0, 0, 18
Company : Ahead Software AG

Description : Cover Designer
Version : 2, 3, 0, 7
Company : Ahead Software AG

Description : Nero BackItUp Application
Version : 1, 2, 0, 15
Company : Ahead Software AG

Description : PowerDVD
Version : 5.00.1107
Company : CyberLink Corp.

Hardware Information

CPU : Intel Celeron processor 1800 MHz
Bus Speed : 100 MHz
Motherboard : Intel D845GRG
System : Gateway E-2000
BIOS : Intel RG84510A.15A.0057.P19.0308210949
Memory : 768 MB (2ns)
Sound : Playback through TotalRecorder
Video : Intel® 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller

ASPI Information

System ASPI : ASPI is installed and working properly

WNASPI32.DLL : 4.60 (1021) 45056 bytes September 09, 1999
ASPI32.SYS : 4.60 (1021) 25244 bytes September 09, 1999
WINASPI.DLL : 4.60 (1021) 5600 bytes September 09, 1999
WOWPOST.EXE : 4.60 (1021) 4672 bytes September 09, 1999

Nero ASPI : ASPI is installed and working properly

WNASPI32.DLL : 2.0.1.59 160016 bytes December 16, 2003


#2

Dma is OFF on your 200g HDD and DMA is OFF on your NEC-2500 from what i see.


#3

That’ll do it. :wink:
It should work with both drives on one channel, as long as the source drive begins at a higher read rate and ends at a higher rate than the burning drive.


#4

DMA is definitely the starting point.
If simply enabling DMA doesn’t work, you can try the following…

Are you using 80 wire IDE cables?

Have you tried placing the reading & writing drive on seperate IDE channels?
(I see you have them both on channel 1)

Try different channels, then try different IDE cables (even if you already have 80 wire cables now).


#5

Definately check the DMA of the NEC2500 (& the HD) first.

Since the Main system buffer is full, but the NEC2500’s buffer is up and down like crazy, data just isn’t reaching it fast enough.
4x (approx 6MB/s) sounds close to the actual PIO4 transfer rate vs the theoretical rate of 16.6MB/s when another drive is using the same bus.
( 6/33 + 6/16 approx = 0.6 seconds (60%) = expected realisation of any real bus)

You can also try the following configuration …

Primary:
M - OS HD
S - Liteon1633s

Secondary:
M - NEC2500
S - Spare HD

Reasoning1: Will remove clashes on a single IDE bus when copying on the fly.
Reasoning2: Will remove extra load on primary bus when backing up from HD2 (I use my spare HD for all burning/images/etc).
Reasoning3: Movie encoding/processing or file copying from HD->HD performance will be slightly increased.

Side affects: May slow down everyday operation slightly when using both your main HD & main optical drive simultaneously (Litey1633s I’m assuming) when installing / copying files. Although this generally only happens when you are installing programs.

The other option is to move your NEC2500 into the USB2 external case :wink:
The NEC2500 is only an 8x burner, so current USB2 external case chipsets should be fine for this speed :wink:


#6

I agree that splitting the source and burner on different channels is the way to go. You can, in theory, have them sharing, but it’s very easy to get the transfer buggered up, and then it never seems to recover so you have that buffer see-saw going on all through the burn. So you have to leave the system alone during the transfer. Of course, caching the burn works nicely too if you don’t mond waiting.

One note, if you have the source drive sharing a channel with something else that’s getting used, like a hard drive, you can easily have issues with that too.

My solution: PCI card for hard drives, MB IDE for optical.


#7

THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTIONS! i have checked dma and it is because i am runnning IAA that nero infotool displays wrong. i confirmed it was not the liteon by taking the 48161 out of the enclosure and put it in the case and it does the same thing. not sure how pair a drive and an optical since the drives are down low and the opticals up top and the cables are not long enough. what is really pissing me off is that a similar config in my entertainment pc is fine copying at full speed. it has a gigabyte MB and only one HD but otherwise it is the same.

      Secondary Master:  LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1633S
           Model:  LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1633S
           Firmware:  BS41
           Device Type:  ATAPI - Removable - CDROM
           PIO Mode Support:  0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
           DMA SW Mode Support:  No Support
           DMA MW Mode Support:  0 - 1 - 2
           UDMA Mode Support:  0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
           Default Transfer Mode:  UDMA-4
           Current Transfer Mode:  UDMA-4
           Transfer Mode Limit:  No Limit
           Cable Type (Device):  40 Conductor
           Cable Type (Host):  80 Conductor
           PIO PPE:  Enabled
           UDMA Control Register:  Ultra DMA Mode Enabled
           UDMA Timing Register:  CT = 2 CLK / RP = 8 CLK
           Base Clock:  Ultra DMA 66 Timings
           Auto-Acoustic Management:  Feature not supported by device.
           Dynamic APM on AC:  Feature not supported by device.
           Dynamic APM on Battery:  Feature not supported by device.

 
      Secondary Slave:  _NEC DVD_RW ND-2500A
           Model:  _NEC DVD_RW ND-2500A
           Firmware:  1.07
           Device Type:  ATAPI - Removable - CDROM
           PIO Mode Support:  0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
           DMA SW Mode Support:  No Support
           DMA MW Mode Support:  0 - 1 - 2
           UDMA Mode Support:  0 - 1 - 2
           Default Transfer Mode:  UDMA-2
           Current Transfer Mode:  [B]UDMA-2[/B]
           Transfer Mode Limit:  UDMA-2
           Cable Type (Device):  40 Conductor
           Cable Type (Host):  40 Conductor
           PIO PPE:  Enabled
           UDMA Control Register:  Ultra DMA Mode Enabled
           UDMA Timing Register:  CT = 2 CLK / RP = 4 CLK
           Base Clock:  Ultra DMA 33 Timings
           Auto-Acoustic Management:  Disabled
           Dynamic APM on AC:  Feature not supported by device.
           Dynamic APM on Battery:  Feature not supported by device.

#8

Swap your cables with the cables in your entertainment PC :wink:
Or buy longer cables :slight_smile: Disable the Intel drivers & use MS generic drivers, at the same time.

Swap the two IDE chains :wink:
HD’s on secondary, Opticals on primary.
Set your bios to boot from your secondary master, of course :wink:

Also, what’s the length of the cable on your opticals?

It’s incredibly rare, but I have seen it a few times, when several 60 & 80cm cables just wouldn’t work, but all the 45cm cables worked flawlessly :iagree:


#9

Maybe it’s because you didn’t buy the BenQ DW1620. Just kidding. :cool:


#10

Not helpful, fool!
Just kidding. :cool:


#11

I couldn’t resist. :slight_smile:


#12

actually i had the same problem with the benq which is partially why i returned it…
on this system i now have a nec3500 ext usb 2.0 and it will feed at full speed to the 2500 MOST of the time. on those occasions it doesn’t i run cd/dvd speed and start a transfer test and all of a sudden it will work.

on my other system i have a 48161 (reader) and another 2500 and 98% of the time this combo will write at top speed BUT same thing will occasionally start here also. again i am able to clear everything up with a cd/dvd speed transfer rate test and then take off burning again.

i know eric said something about a RUN AT FULL SPEED or something such in one of his posts that cd/dvd speed does in a transfer rate test but it seems strange that nero wouldn’t automatically send that same command when starting burning… i think this qualifies as a bug.

Edit:

just tried this trick with the liteon and unlike the external drive which stays spinning fast the liteon spins down just as the 2500 is firing up and then stays slow… almost like the liteon is being set to the same speeds as the nec (zone 4,6, 8x) which isn’t fast enough to burn at speed with… hell i am even bufferunderruning on 4x right now. it si bouncing between 2.8 and 3.7x in nero.

the erikdeppe post in question. it states :

The drive will keep the speed setting until the disc is ejected.
If the drive has stopped spinning, it will spin up to full speed again as soon as the disc is accessed.
So you have plenty of time to open other applications
After an eject the drive will use the default speed setting again (12x with most discs)


#13

an example in screen shot:


#14

vs this with the 3500:
it was burning so fast i almost missed getting a screenshot