Problems testing SH-S223Q with Nero DiscSpeed

[qanda]This thread is about the Samsung SH-S223F. Click here to see full specs[/qanda]Hello all,

When initiating this posting, I selected . . .

> Optical Storage
> Samsung
> SH-S223F (unfortunately, the SH-S223Q was not listed, and that is the Optical Storage product that I have)

I recently purchased several new Samsung SH-S223Q Super-Writemaster LightScribe burners from Newegg.

The SH-S223Q is a 22X DVD±RW burner. I typically burn 16X DVD-R discs by Philips and or HP - and according to Nero software (see below) these discs are manufactured by CMC.

I also have another DVD±RW burner, a Samsung an OEM from Dell, model TS-H653A. It is a Samsung because on the greenboard, next to the SATA connector, it reads SH-S183A. I believe that this burner works perfectly, however, I wanted a newer, faster drive that had LightScribe capability, and at $25 with free shipping, I could not resist the SH-S223Q from Newegg.

Software-wise, I primarily use Nero Vision and Nero Recode to create DVDs.

While burning my first DVD-R with the new SH-S223Q, I noted the total time required, and then burned the same file with the TS-H653A. The TS-H653A required approx 35% less time.

I also watched the speed counter as it incremented for each burners. The TS-H653A incremented much faster and peaked at approx 10X. The SH-S223Q incremented noticeably slower and peaked at approx 8X.

According to Samsung and Dell, the specs associated with burning DVD-R media include:

SH-S223Q . . . 22X CAV
TS-H653A . . . 18X CAV

Given the slow SH-S223Q results, I decided to use Nero CD-DVD Speed (version 4.7.7.15) and ran both Benchmark and Create Disc tests on both burners.

I also downloaded Nero’s current release, DiscSpeed 5.0.1.250, and had to download, install and register AdvrCntr4.dll as well.

In summary, the TS-H653A passed the Create Disc test without transient sags or drops, and it achieved 16.3X write speed. Unfortunately, the SH-S223Q did not pass the Create Disc test - in my opinion - because there were several transient sags or drops ranging from 2X to 4X in magnitude, between 250MB and 4.38GB.

After reviewing the comprehensive Nero CD-DVD Speed user guide - as found here at CD Freaks [http://club.cdfreaks.com/f96/cd-dvd-speed-user-guide-192563/], I used most of Nero’s default settings except for the following Options . . .

  • Standard Test / Speed / Write speed to Selected at 16X
  • Standard Test / Transfer Rate / Graph / Maximum speed DVD to 22
  • Disc Quality / Graph limit / DVD to 18

. . . and at the “Create Disc” tab, I selected the “Settings / Speed” at 16X.

While I am not confident that my Option settings are 100% appropriate, I repeated the tests and varied these settings with the hope of generating a positive Create Disc [write] test result. Unfortunately, that never happened.

Regardless of my settings, whether 16X or 18X or 22X, the results were virtually the same - several transient sags or drops, from 2X to 4X in magnitude, between 250MB and 4.38GB.

The SH-S223Q labels states that the drive were built December 2008 with F/W revision SB02.

After running the Nero tests, I updated the F/W to Samsung’s current version, SB03 - dated 28 JAN 09.

I should add that the F/W for my TS-H653A is updated to the latest available from Dell, version D500.

I also used Samsung’s F/W update (SH-S223Q_SB03.exe), and Samsung’s LiveUpdate 2.0 (Liveudpate20_Eng_Install.exe) software to update my drives from SB02 to SB03. Prior to updating, I used Samsung’s TSST Win Inquiry 1.03.1 software.

After updating the F/W to SB03 on two different SH-S223Q drives, I ran the same Nero tests, using both CD-DVD Speed 4.7.7.15 and DiscSpeed 5.0.1.250. Regardless of the settings, 16X or 18X or 22X, the results were, once again, virtually the same - several transient sags or drops from 2X to 4X in magnitude, between 250MB and 4.38GB.

Disappointed with the Nero Create Disc (write) results, I submitted an email to Samsung Support via their online web form page. Their initial reply states . . . “Was this new drive bought OEM? If so the FW update you performed damaged the chip on the drive.”

While it is true that the SH-S223Q at Newegg are described as OEM drives, I am confident that they use of the term “OEM” as a convenience. I say this because the drives are not retail packed, but are shipped bubble-wrapped (as in bulk or white box).

Prior to purchasing the SH-S223Q drives from Newegg, I contacted Samsung Support and spoke with an individual whom stated that Samsung was aware of the Newegg SH-S223Q drives and that they were most likely not “true” OEM drives, but instead bulk product.

I challenged Samsung’s initial reply by stating that Samsung’s LiveUpdate 2.0 software refused to update my TS-H653A (a Samsung SH-S183A). This made sense since the TS-H653A was an OEM drive from Dell. In contrast, Samsung’s LiveUpdate 2.0 quickly update the SH-S223 drives from F/W revision SB02 to SB03 without any error or delay.

Samsung’s responded to my challenge by stating . . . “If the drive was purchased by Dell or whomever and then not used, it has still been wiped of our FW and been implanted with their FW. Sometimes they sell these drives to companies like NewEgg and TigerDirect. They haven’t been relabeled with the TS- model number but they are still OEM drives. As the FW has been flashed. This is the information I have to give you. I am not an engineer. I am just tech support for the average Joe that doesn’t know much and tries to tackle jobs they don’t understand and are not ready for. If you need an RMA then go ahead and submit one. I’m just trying to help.”

I have no problem submitting multiple RMAs for several (apparently defective) SH-S223Q drives. However, I do have a problem paying to ship “brand new” SH-S223Q drives back to Samsung and then waiting however many weeks for their return.

On a related note, today, I phoned Samsung Support to discuss my SH-S223Q drive problems. After speaking with level 1 support for about 20 minutes, my call was escalated to level 2 support. After an additional 45 minute discussion with level 2 support, my choices were limited. Either I submit a multiple RMA to Samsung, or return the drives to Newegg.

Here is where things get a little interesting, at least in my opinion.

When I submitted the email to Samsung Support via their online web form page, I also emailed Newegg explaining the problem associated with the SH-S223Q drives. Newegg responded quickly and before Samsung, and their solution was very consumer-friendly. In short, Newegg offer to and did ship replacement SH-S223Q drives at no charge - and those new drives arrived today.

Like my first SH-S223Q drives, today’s shipment was also built in December 2008 with F/W revision SB02.

I did not update any drive before running the Nero tests. Unfortunately, all drives failed in the same manner as described above. I did not update their F/W to SB03 because I am confident the results will be remain the same - several transient sags or drops from 2X to 4X in magnitude, between 250MB and 4.38GB.

I do have screenshots that illustrate the results associated with both the SH-S223Q and TS-H653A drives, but, as a Newbie, I do not know how to upload the respective jpg files in a manner that incorporates their images in this post - my first at cdfreaks.com

If I have not bored you to death by documenting my experience in such a comprehensive manner, here is what I am now contemplating . . .

The SH-S223Q drives are okay because the Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.7.15 and DiscSpeed 5.0.1.250 software is somehow flawed when conducting Benchmark [read] and Create Disc [write] tests for burners that exceed 18X with 16X DVD-R discs.

On a related note, the Philips and HP DVD-R discs are labeled 16X, but Nero’s “Disc Info” states they are CMC MAG. AM3 discs; and 4X - 6X - 8X - 12X - 16X - 18X when read by the SH-S223Q drive, and 4X - 8X - 12X - 16X when read by the TS-H653A drive.

If my assumption is correct, and Nero’s software is somehow flawed when testing burners that exceed 18X, I am 100% confident that I will get no help from Nero. Their technical support is among the worst and posting a blog at my.nero.com rarely results in a solution - in my experience.

Given that Knowledge is Power here at Club CD Freaks, I was hoping to get some fresh ideas, knowledge or perspective on my SH-S223Q problem and or my Nero software assumption associated with 18X+ drives.

Regarding Nero’s DiscSpeed 5.0.1.250 software, perhaps I am not using the correct settings. If so, I would sincerely appreciate anyone whom shares their expertise and or experience testing 20X burners and above using this Nero software. Specifically, Option settings that differ from Nero’s defaults.

Thank you all.

Best regards,

CurlySue

Hi and Welcome!

could you please post screenshots of your read and write tests using CD/DVD Speed? Instructions are given in my signature.

Michael

Thank you for your super fast reply, Michael.

I wanted to edit my previous post, but I could not find an EDIT option.

I wanted to add that I tried swapping the SATA and PWR connectors between the TS-H653A and SH-S223Q drives, but the test results remained the same - several transient sags or drops from 2X to 4X in magnitude, between 130MB (corrected from 250MB) and 4.38GB.

I did not save the screenshots as PNG files, but as JPG files, and will try to upload them per your instructions.

Thanks again!

CurlySue



Hi,[QUOTE=CurlySue;2226973]Thank you for your super fast reply, Michael.[/quote]You’re Welcome!

I wanted to edit my previous post, but I could not find an EDIT option.
Forum policy. You have 30 minutes after submitting to edit your post.

I did not save the screenshots as PNG files, but as JPG files, and will try to upload them per your instructions.
If you click the “floppy” icon in CDSpeed, then you have the images in PNG. :slight_smile: Better readability and smaller file size.

Burn curve of your 223 looks perfectly normal, nothing to complain about. You may compare to those of other users: http://club.cdfreaks.com/f105/samsung-sh-s223-results-discussion-244279/. These might differ from your results slightly since they are real burns (yours are simulated burns).

The 223 burns in a different manner than the 183. These “drops” are a result of the laser calibration process which is done during the burning (WOPC). The “speed drop” pattern will vary depending on media and burn speed.

Total burn time for these tests is nearly the same (neglecting the 5 sec, the 223 burn is faster), so all is fine here.

Michael

I just ran another Create Disc test, but "Settings Speed at 18X instead of 16X. As before, the result remains the same - several transient sags or drops from 2X to 4X in magnitude, through 4.38GB.


[QUOTE=mciahel;2226979] SNIP SNIP SNIP The 223 burns in a different manner than the 183. These “drops” are a result of the laser calibration process which is done during the burning (WOPC). The “speed drop” pattern will vary depending on media and burn speed.

Michael[/QUOTE]

Really???

What a sad, disappointing and waste of a 45 minute conversation with Samsung Level 2 Support - where the dude did not say a word about laser calibration, nor anything regarding a “speed drop” pattern. The same dude was also looking at the screenshots that I emailed him. And here I thought that only Level 1 Support should be relocated to McDonald’s running French Fries.

What is WOPC?

Are you aware of Samsung literature (online) that addresses the laser calibration process and the associated “speed drop” pattern?

Thank you, Michael.

Best regards,

CurlySue

Hi,[QUOTE=CurlySue;2226990]Really???[/quote]Yes :smiley:

What a sad, disappointing and waste of a 45 minute conversation with Samsung Level 2 Support - where the dude did not say a word about laser calibration, nor anything regarding a “speed drop” pattern.
I remember you quoting that guy “I am not an engineer. I am just tech support for the average Joe” :wink:

What is WOPC?
There are a few links on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimized_Power_Control. Active OPC and Running OPC are different words for the same.

Are you aware of Samsung literature (online) that addresses the laser calibration process and the associated “speed drop” pattern?
Unfortunately not. At least not on Samsung website. But you should find some remarks of highly experienced members about this using our forum search.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f33/wopc-walking-opc-138632/
http://club.cdfreaks.com/f92/what-wopc-155822/
These speed drops can be found with other DVD burners (I am thinking of Pioneer and NEC drives) also.

Thank you, Michael.
You’re Welcome :slight_smile:

Michael

Looking at Sen’s [CDFreaks Resident] Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.7.15 Create Disc results for a DVD-R disc, dated 03-05-2008, I am puzzled by at least two issues.

First, I would like to know how he managed to set the Settings Speed to 22X.

Second, where he found a 22X DVD-R because I have not found any manufacturer above 18X - and how a 22X drive can write to a 16-18X disc without error. Of course, perhaps the drops associated with his results represent just that . . . you cannot expect 22X results on 16-18X media without errors. Then again, perhaps I am more ignorant than I thought when it comes to 22X burners and 16-18X media.

In addition, it is possible, however improbable, that the IDE SH-S223F SB00 drive responds differently from my SATA SH-S223Q SB02 and SB03 drives.

Very puzzling.

CurlySue

[QUOTE=mciahel;2227002]Hi,Yes :smiley:
I remember you quoting that guy “I am not an engineer. I am just tech support for the average Joe” :wink:
There are a few links on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimized_Power_Control
Unfortunately not. At least not on Samsung website. But you should find some remarks of highly experienced members about this using our forum search. These speed drops can be found with other DVD burners (I am thinking of Pioneer and NEC drives) also.

You’re Welcome :slight_smile:

Michael[/QUOTE]

The quote regarding “I am not an engineer. I am just tech support for the average Joe” was the reply to my email that challenged Samsung Support’s initial response that suggested I trashed an OEM drive with their SB03 update. Regardless, I understand the point is now moot.

Thank you for the WIKI link regarding WOPC - I shall review it shortly.

Later today, I plan on contacting the Level 2 Support dude to discuss my NEW insight and understanding regarding this drive and its characteristics. It should prove an interesting discussion and, if not, clearly educational for him. In the meantime, I will spend a few minutes to peruse the links that you provided regarding our fellow members experience and expertise.

Many, many thanks, Michael, for taking the time to educate me regarding the Samsung SH-S223Q drive.

Best regards,

CurlySue

Hi,[QUOTE=CurlySue;2227005]Looking at Sen’s (…) results for a DVD-R disc, dated 03-05-2008, I am puzzled by at least two issues.

First, I would like to know how he managed to set the Settings Speed to 22X. [/quote]To set burn speed to 22x, you need media that supports this speed. There are only a few MIDs that are “good enough” and thus supported in the drive’s firmware.

Second, where he found a 22X DVD-R because I have not found any manufacturer above 18X - and how a 22X drive can write to a 16-18X disc without error.
One of the MIDs (MID=Media ID) is 16x rated Taiyo Yuden TYG03. Sen used one of these. I can get them if I buy “Made in Japan” Verbatim discs.
And the burn is not good.

The “magic” is Overspeeding. 16x rated media is burned at much higher speeds, similar to overclocking. This overspeeding is controlled by the firmware, so that only certain media are allowed to be burnt above their rated speeds.

Of course, perhaps the drops associated with his results represent just that . . . you cannot expect 22X results on 16-18X media without errors.
Indeed. Drops in the read curve indicate problems with the burn. The drops in the write curve are - as already stated - normal. You can even increase the amount of these drops with a firmware patch, that is targeted to improve the burn quality: http://club.cdfreaks.com/f105/patch-utility-samsung-mtk-based-dvd-writers-v3-4-7-new-242508/
Then again, perhaps I am more ignorant than I thought when it comes to 22X burners and 16-18X media.
Well, you ran into the marketing trap :bigsmile:

In addition, it is possible, however improbable, that the IDE SH-S223F SB00 drive responds differently from my SATA SH-S223Q SB02 and SB03 drives.
223F and 223Q are the same drives (apart from Lightscribe feature). Compared to the initial firmware, many things were improved with the latest firmware updates. (For which I do not recommend using “Auto Update” softwares.) With the first firmwares, the burn quality of these drives was not as good as expected.

Michael

> Well, you ran into the marketing trap

Yes, I did. UGH!!! :frowning:

> 223F and 223Q are the same drives (apart from Lightscribe feature). Compared to the initial firmware, many things were improved with the latest firmware updates. (For which I do not recommend using “Auto Update” softwares.) With the first firmwares, the burn quality of these drives was not as good as expected.

Understood. I am not fond of Auto (anything) and that is why I also downloaded Samsung’s F/W update (SH-S223Q_SB03.exe) along with their LiveUpdate 2.0 software.

I specifically added the use of the LiveUpdate 2.0 software to prove a point to Samsung Support - the point that challenged their OEM assertion - why would their LiveUpdate 2.0 software update the firmware on my SH-S223Q drives if they were (supposedly, according to their assertion) an OEM drive.

Again, a moot point now, but at the time it was a necessary evil given my general ignorance associated with this drive and the Nero results.

Thanks again, Michael. :slight_smile:

Best regards,

CurlySue

Hi,

it’s me again.
After browsing through the “scans and discussion” threads for [ul]
[li]SH-S183L - SH-S183L is the same as yours plus Lightscribe[/li][li]SH-S182D, Sony DRU-830 - SH-S182D (and its clone, Sony DRU-830) are the P-Ata brothers. [/li][/ul]
then all 18x Samsungs show the OPC dips in [I]real burns[/I].

[I]Simulated [/I]burns seem to not show the OPC spikes with the 18x Samsungs (and apparently the 20x also).

Michael

[QUOTE=mciahel;2227290]Hi,

it’s me again.
After browsing through the “scans and discussion” threads for [ul]
[li]SH-S183L - SH-S183L is the same as yours plus Lightscribe
[/li][li]SH-S182D, Sony DRU-830 - SH-S182D (and its clone, Sony DRU-830) are the P-Ata brothers.
[/li][/ul]
then all 18x Samsungs show the OPC dips in [I]real burns[/I].

[I]Simulated [/I]burns seem to not show the OPC spikes with the 18x Samsungs (and apparently the 20x also).

Michael[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the EXTRA EFFORT here, Michael. That is very kind and generous of you. :slight_smile:

I did review many postings where members (with far more expertise than me) shared Nero CD-DVD Speed test results and graphs. I was specifically drawn to the page(s) where CD Freak’s member Burnsama shared his/her results at 12X, 16X, 18X, 20X and 20X results for his/her SH-S223Q drive(s) with F/W revision SB03. His posts are recent and, obviously, quite timely for my edification. :smiley:

Burnsama’s results may be found here . . . http://club.cdfreaks.com/f105/samsung-sh-s223-results-discussion-244279/index51.html

Thank you for the additional links, I shall review them later today. And to add to your words regarding the SH-S183L, according to Samsung’s Super-Writemaster User Guide, the SH-S223Q is also the TS-H653Q (an OEM version).

Thank you, once again, for your time and continuing tutelage, Michael.

Best regards,

CurlySue

Its me again! :slight_smile:

Though not terribly interesting, I thought I would share a Samsung link that addresses OPC execution errors that occur during the recording process . . .

http://www.samsungodd.com/Eng/Support/FAQ/Faq.asp?Functionvalue=view&no=102&SearchWord=recommended%20media&searchmode=TOTALSEARCH&category=1

Where it reads . . .

[B]Before writing a track on a disc, CD recorders must adjust the amount of power applied to the writing laser to an optimum level for each individual disc. The Optimum Power Calibration area near the center of a disc is reserved for this purpose. Some blank discs, however, are defective or poorly manufactured so that CD recorders fail to adjust the power laser causing an OPC Execution error.
[/B]

Yeah, I know, its but a tiny speck in the vast ocean of knowledge that is Club CD Freaks! :smiley:

CurlySue :slight_smile: