Problem copying with CCD 3.2.2.1

I’m trying to backup a copy of AvP2 for a friend, so he can take the backup back to college and leave the shiny originals at his parents. Each time I try I get a coaster. I have tried with versions 3.2.1.1 and 3.2.2.1 of CloneCD. I have a NEC DV-5700A DVD-ROM and a Sony CRX-145E burner. I am using Win98SE with a copy of Nero 5.5.5.1 also installed.

A co-worker has managed to backup his copy of AvP2 using CloneCD 3.0.2.3 and told me what settings worked for him and it is these that I am using. He has a Compaq CD-ROM model unknown and a Yamaha CR2100 [?] burner. Not sure about other burner software but I suspect he’s got something.

Each time CloneCD completes the burn process sucessfully and shows no errors. I quit CloneCD and open Windows Explorer only to be told that the burner drive is not ready. I haven’t touched the CD and CloneCD is not set to auto eject on completion. So I take the disk out, place it in the DVD-ROM which tries to read it and this either hangs Explorer or tells me the drive is not ready.

So, have I got a problem with the burner, or is there a problem with my setup and later editions of CloneCD? Any help appreciated.

AvP2 has the Securom New protection and uses SubChannel Data. The Sony writers are a but fussy when it comes to this data… Especially because you say the disc does nothing at all but just spin in the drive, I think you have a bad copy (read: errors on it). Please use a lower reading and writing speed. You need a drive that can read the SubChannel Data but I don’t know if the NEC can (I only know the Tosh/LiteOn DVD’s can) so you might need to read the image with your writer.

Goodluck!

Thank you G@m3Fr3@k- this is all new info to me.

I did a bit more experimentation last night [that goodness for CD-RWs]. Here is what I found;

Using a copy of 3.0.2.3 I get an error diaglog box on screen when reading from the NEC DVD saying that the reading of Sub Channel data from this device is not supported. This error was not reported by CCD versions 3.2.1.1, 3.2.2.1 or 3.2.3.1 and so I assumed that the later versions now supported the NEC DVD correctly.

WRONG, the error was still there but only written into the log file and not shown on the screen. :o So I used the Sony to read [8x] and write [4x] the image file and guess what a usable copy. :smiley:

The NEC does read Sub channel data as I have played HalfLife Blue shift, which is also SecuROM New protected without problem, so it looks like it is just not supported by CCD

So that was my first mistake, my second was in the diagnosis of the problem. I thought that the incorrect settings would not cause the image file to be corrupt but simply missing the sub data.

So Olli, if you’ve reading this, can I ask to have the error message back, or better still could you add support for the NEC DV-5700A DVD-ROM drive in a future release please? Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Orinoco
The NEC does read Sub channel data as I have played HalfLife Blue shift, which is also SecuROM New protected without problem, so it looks like it is just not supported by CCD
Just because you can play a SecuROM new protected disc, doesn’t mean the drive can read the SubChannels… Confusing I know but look at it this way: if a drive can’t read SC data then it wouldn’t even be able to play the original disc (which also has this data) either! :slight_smile: I think the NEC DVD’s just can’t read the data and that it’s not CloneCD related but pure hardware related…

Glad to see you did get a working back-up.

Originally posted by G@M3FR3@K
[B]Just because you can play a SecuROM new protected disc, doesn’t mean the drive can read the SubChannels

if a drive can’t read SC data then it wouldn’t even be able to play the original disc (which also has this data) either! [/B]

Huh? Isn’t this a contradiction?

Sorry G@m3Fr3@k but you confused me with that one.

If I can play a SecuROM New game, I have to be able to read the sub channel data. Thus the NEC must read sub channel data.

However CCD can’t access the Sub channel data from the NEC, that sounds like a software thing to me. Unless I misunderstood your last post, in which case could you explain it in a bit more detail please?

Originally posted by Upp3rd0G
Huh? Isn’t this a contradiction?
Seems that way I agree :slight_smile:

SecuRom uses a digital signature ‘wrapped around’ a main executable. Via an authentication program (software trick) the signature is decrypted and can then be played/executed. This digital signature has to be present so if you want to make a copy you need a device that can read this signature (hardware) and a writer that can write it. However once the signature is present on the disc it is then checked only through software and not hardware. I don’t know how it works exactly (I’m no programmer) but that’s how I figured it…

You see? Like I said before: there are numerous devices out there that can’t read SubChannel Data and wouldn’t be able to play SecuRom protected discs if the check was done via hardware…

It’s technical but plausible; simply, a device does not have to be able to read the subs for the protection, like SecuROM, to be detected.

Remember, if you can’t read/write subs, simply delete the sub file (if written/regenerated), mount the cue file (always make one) in D-Tools and burn from there.

The sub is only required for the protection so simply check Hide CDR Media

Thanks G@m3Fr3@k and FutureProof.

I accept that what you say is correct, but I still don’t understand how the software can check the signature in the sub-channel if the drive can’t read it…?

How, then, do some CD/DVD-ROM drives work with SecuROM and others not? When BlueShift first came out there were lots of complaints by people who couldn’t play because their legal copies did not pass the protection checks on thier PCs. But if it is not necessary to read the sub channel data to pass the check why did those failures occur. I always thought this was down to whether the drive used was able to read the SubChannel data.

Originally posted by Orinoco
How, then, do some CD/DVD-ROM drives work with SecuROM and others not? When BlueShift first came out there were lots of complaints by people who couldn’t play because their legal copies did not pass the protection checks on thier PCs. But if it is not necessary to read the sub channel data to pass the check why did those failures occur. I always thought this was down to whether the drive used was able to read the SubChannel data.
Like I said I don’t know how it works exactly. The problems you describe with Blue Shift are indeed problems due to drives not being able to read the SC data so in this case the complicated authentication check to read the SC data via software wasn’t good enough…

I can’t recall exactly where I read about this. There are some links off Andy McFadden’s FAQ that will take you to some freaky, techno-gagging, electronic warfare type pages where they talk about assymetric waves and beta things; I was convinced anyway.