Possible To Burn Graphics to CD/DVD?

vbimport

#1

Du you think it is possible to burn graphics to the surface of a CD/DVD using any
CD/DVD Rom recorder ?

E.g. create a CD/DVD Image with special prepared Data (different regular patterns) to create visible patterns on the Recording surface. If you arrange the pattern in a clever way maybe you can create graphics on the cd surface?

What do you think?


#2

No, especially not “with any” recorder or “any” media.


#3

You are describing the “Disc T@2” feature of the Yamaha F1.

A techology I’d rather see than the ludicrously slow “Lightscribe” which writes the top of special media in a special drive.

I’m sure it would have been practical for other makers to develop or licence T@2 for their drives.
The weakness of T@2 is that it’s not a great contrast level, even on media that takes it well (and useless on “silver/clear”).


#4

But would you think this is a hardware function, ie, a specific peice of hardware that controls this? Or could this be implemented via firmware modifications? BTW, I still have a yamaha f1 :slight_smile:


#5

I considered this idea a couple of years ago - using different EFM patterns to generate a visible picture, perhaps introducing correctible errors to enhance the picture.

It really does work, to some extent. If you make a 30 minute wav file with AC silence at DC-offset 0x1515 (EFM encoding of 0x15 is 00000010000000) and a 30 minute wav file with AC silence at DC offset 0xA8A8 (EFM encoding of 0xA8 is 01001001001001), and burn them on a CD, you will see two distinct areas - The second track has a lot more land/pit transitions, and it does show.

First problem: synchronizing in the along-track direction. Back-of-the-envelope calculation - A typical land/pit passes under the laser in about 1.6 microseconds. At half-CD (R=6cm,) with a reading velocity of 1.2 m/s, one revolution takes 2pi0.06/1.2 = 0.37 m / 1.2m/s = 0.3 seconds.

This basically means that there are about 200,000 lands and pits in one revolution, and the writer would have to be precise enough to align the pattern on subsequent passes of the spiral winding. I think it can’t do that (but I could be mistaken).

Second problem: I remember finding a Philips patent that covers this. So by all means try this for fun, but don’t expect to get rich :slight_smile:

Regards, Sidney


#6

I did try something different.

I used regualar patterns in a CD Image. I could see different areas, too. But it is very hard to see on silver disks.

I will try this again with audio data, and try to create sample Images (Straigth lines etc. ) on the CD.

This should show, whether the recorder is precise enough, or not.

Has anybody tried this on DVD?


#7

Does anyone know what the T@2 burner does differently than other drives when burning images?

I read the yamaha website and they described it as mentioned previously as using 2 different EFM patterns, but also mentioned it “takes it one step further” or something to that effect.

It obviously does something extra as if it didnt then you would be able to burn the data produced by the software with another burner to achieve the same effect.

The only 2 things I can think of is:

1: when burning image data, its spindle motor runs at 1x and at very finely controlled rpm. If this was not very precise then radial lines would be distorted.

2: Does not maintain proper DSV when calculating merge bits.
When using the 2 EFM patterns then the merge bits will have to make up for those by counteracting the pit/land changes your trying to achieve with the EFM patterns. i.e. trying to undo the reflectivity your trying to achieve. I would imagine that when the drive is aware thats its burning image data then the DSV is put into reverse. IOW it will try to keep DSV at the far extreme so when the one EFM that creates a lot of pit changes is followed by the same one then it will maintain as much pit/land change as possible. (and vice versa)

Anyone that has a T@2 burner and the software care to share with us what it does when you create an image to burn onto disk? Does it create some iso data image that you burn? I noticed some software like nero IIRC has option to burn T@2 data. So I would imagine that the drive has some vendor specific command to tell it to do its thing and handle the incoming data accordingly when burning a T@2 image. And care to post/provide any iso images with T@2 data to see what the sectors look like?


#8

Well an iso image is not created. First you burn your cd with whatever on it and make sure the disc is finalized. Then you click the option under recorder in nero for disc T@2. It then shows a layout of the disc, kind of like a cover designer. But it only shows you the available space to add graphics or text etc. Then you tell it to burn and it starts burning it. It takes about 5-8 minutes if I remember correctly. I might try to do a test burn but the last disc I put in it wasn’t recognized. I guess in order to read the data of the T@2’ed data, you would need a reader that could read past the leadout and make an image of it. If the imaging area would even be readable. Nero is the only software that I know of to make Disc T@2’s.


#9

Interesting. So the gfx editor is built into nero?

And this only works for the T@2 drive?

How about doing a simple swap trick of a T@2 disc and reading a few sectors and posting some data? Or perhaps cranking up softice and BPX on some disk IO. Theres so much bloat in nero last time I had it, you could prolly patch in your own file routine and redirect it there;)


#10

I found some more information and apparently the software just sends the gfx data as polar coordinates and the firmware calculates what needs to be done.

This would make the software simpler and keep the l33t algorithms locked up in the drive;)

They also mention that it doesnt really use EFM patterns. (they really dont provide detailed information so thats debatable) they just say that it creates pits/lands of length much longer than regular EFM lengths. So this makes me wonder if the data would readable by normal CD drive.


#11

Well the CRW-F1 has a feature that extends your pits and lands for audio recordings, its called Audio Master Q.R. It gives you about 69 minutes of recording on an 80 minute cd. It is designed to help poor drives read the disc easier.

About the whole softice thing, I would have no idea how to do that.


#12

yes i may have done this :stuck_out_tongue:
i once tried to write prescrambled patterns to dvd (scrambled repetition of 0xa8). i’m not too sure i did the scrambling right though; but they were quite distinguishable from ‘normal’ data.


#13

well - i doubt it’s evn standard pits - it could just be extended laser on and offs since the area is solid change in colour … there is no need to make it comply to standards - you just need to alter the chemicals in the rite area and make a coloured patch :)!


#14

I have an external yamaha f1 scsi that supports the feature of disk t@2, but I don’t have the included Nero software. I do own 2 copies of Nero, but I am not sure if they are compatible with disk t@2. Does anyone know if all versions are compatable?


#15

Any version 6.0+ should be compatible. I don’t know when in version 5 it was supported but if you own nero 6 you should be good to go.


#16

I am surprised that noone brought up labelflash. On a review at this site, it was attempted to write an image to the underside (data) of a labelflash DVD and it actually burned the graphics. Granted, I believe that labelflash can only be used on DVD’s when it comes to burning labels, but I don’t see why you can’t burn the graphics on the data side of a CD as well. This is about the closest thing to T@2 that is currently available.


#17

It is DiscT@2 what you are talking about, but in combination with DVD burners it’s only called Labelflash because that is what the license is all about.


#18

you can burn a grafic on the data side aswell.

Data side

Labeling side


#19

That’s only coloured because of the “ingredients” of the DVD. :wink:
I wouldn’t call it colour graphics.

On the other side, maybe this will lead someone to buy DVD10 media …