Poll of the day: Piracy is beneficial to the movie and music industry

We’ve just posted the following news: Poll of the day: Piracy is beneficial to the movie and music industry[newsimage]http://www.myce.com/wp-content/images_posts/2010/02/PiracyPicture.jpg[/newsimage]

While pirates download lots of music and movies for free, some argue that piracy isn’t as bad as the movie and music industry wants us to believe. They argue that users are still willing to pay for content they really like and that piracy makes it easier to discover new content they actually want.

            Read the full article here: [http://www.myce.com/news/poll-day-piracy-beneficial-movie-music-industry-79280/](http://www.myce.com/news/poll-day-piracy-beneficial-movie-music-industry-79280/)

            Please note that the reactions from the complete site will be synched below.

Mostly no.

Someone who downloads or streams an illegal copy of a movie is unlikely to then buy it, as people tend to view a movie once or only a few times.

Someone who downloads or streams an illegal copy of a song is probably not going to then buy it, but some might, since songs are something people listen to repeatedly.

Oh man, here goes that discussion again. Most of you have heard my arguments already in this debate.
I use trackers as my music-shop which makes me a pirate of sorts. Trouble is I had stopped buying music years ago without my access to more than a million unique music albums from which I can sample.
In other words, the music industry had lost my contributions unless I had my generous access to any release imaginable, new, old, available and unavailable.

I think Dragemester may be on to something as I hate the whole media-created pirate-hype… What the media calls pirates are in reality freeriders who would not pay no matter what along with some students on a tight budget who will/will not pay in the future.

How many of you buy music for more than $1000 each year? This ‘Pirate’ does, more than twice that much too often to be honest. However, I simply can not find the time to listen pointlessly to all music released everywhere in the world, and so I need help. Help I get from and give to other music nutcases on the tracker, so much better than reading a critic from a someone who had too much chili for dinner.

And then the first inevitable question… What do I make available myself? Not much I’m afraid, but what is extremely hard to find and is totally deleted from the market, more than fifty releases in total. Apart from that I seed what I take until at least one time taken, I believe in supporting the artists, still need to keep UL/DL ratio balanced.
Then the next inevitable question, what if you get caught… Forget it, I never take anything for granted, don’t feel particularly invincible and so use caution, BREIN (pun intended) and never seed long from the same location and so when ‘they’ come running, I’m long gone.
Learning international politics is an important part of the game (don’t jump to ‘any’ country or location), they would surely like to hang me and I’m not going to give them the rope for sure :stuck_out_tongue:

Giving up this would mean giving up music as a lifelong hobby and since I obviously enjoy listening to music more than I value my security, I play hide and seek to allow myself to spend money on good music :flower:

I will agree that there is too much music out there so even if you want to buy as much as you want you simply cant, so having the option to listen to music before you make a purchase is a big bonus.

I remember back in the 90s when I was purchasing a lot of LP’s I always prefer to go to the store that they allowed me to listen to some songs before I buy the LP, and yes back then most labels send promo CD’s so you could listen to the new release, plus on that store that they mainly had metal music so no one would complain playing about the music :bigsmile:

Now with spotify, youtube even with various trackers you have that option available to you. You can listen to the LP that interested you and if you like it you buy it, if not move to the next release.

For the so called piracy you also need to add the cost of purchasing LP’s and if I spent my hard earned money I want to buy the LP that I like and to do so I have to listen to it before buying it.
I remember that back in the 90’s most new LP’s cost 2000-2500 drachmas (here in Greece) and now that went up to 25-30 euro, something that its three and up to four times the price that I paid back in the not so distant past. Again cost is another factor for many people that forces them into piracy.

So the way I see it you are forced to move in to piracy at some point, even if you dont want to do that.
At this point you have hoped that things would have moved forward and see more affordable prices for CD’s LP’s and also easier access to media through legal ways*, spotify or other services that would allow listening to music at a lower bitrate but for free even with a few ads, and yes this way would have bring them more people that would actually go out and purchase music or movies.
But NO, it looks like we are still stuck with people that only look at numbers and pretend not to see where things have moved to, so they choose to use piracy as a scapegoat for their mistakes and also their lack in taking actions to solve the problem that they created.
Its really disappointing.

This is a very complex problem, but in general lower prices, more easily accessible media thought legal channels and better quality products (less DRM would also help) should help to solve a big part of the problem, at least for those like like music/movies and are willing to pay to have them in their collection.
Not much can be done for the small minority of people that want everything for free, those people will be here not matter what is done, and will always will be unstratified.

*this is happened but its not always very legal

I seem to put some of my other posts on the subject as a prerequisite and so comes forth as a little unclear why I [B]really[/B] have to play hide and seek.

It is absolutely correct that for the casual music fan, there are services like Spotify, Youtube etc where most new and older mainstream releases is available, but like I use to put it;
‘it’s been years since I parked my car by the music highway and today I am way up in music mountain carrying a torch, searching for diamonds where others have found only rocks before me.’

Even American not too obscure groups from the '70s and '80s are unavailable at Spotify and when we as an example leave ‘Aphrodite’s Child’ behind and go into the late '60s obscure Greek Psychedelia scene, I can only wish you good luck (There’s more to that country than Mikis Theodorakis, Nana Mouskouri, Demis Roussos, Vangelis…). Actually a fantastic mix of folk/psychedelia/rock and indeed one of the more interesting scenes in a historical perspective.
Of course, I know that I can buy such and other obscure recordings from among others Anazitisi Records, but that I learned from another user and so nothing I would have found on my own, let alone started buying music from them unless I got to sample the albums first.
Do I need to mention obscure psychedelic sitar recordings from India/Pakistan or U.S.S.R/Balkan underground music of the '70s… probably not, I think you get the picture where in the musical landscape I’m travelling these days.

In other words, ‘today you got Spotify, Youtube…’ is a hollow argument, not even covering the basics imo.
I find it interesting however that the Norwegian holy grail of progressive rock, ‘Junipher Greene - Friendship’ from '71 actually is available (yep, that is a rewrite of the name of a bus stop outside of Edinburgh in Scotland). What I mean by that is that is that there is hope that someday, trackers and torrents will be unnecessary, but it still seems that day is long ahead of us.

In other words, ‘hide and seek’ is where its at for the forseeable future and I really don’t see it as piracy :flower:

I think there’s a few arguments:

1) Not every copy pirated is a lost sale.  When the price is free people can consume an unlimited supply. If there were a price attached people would have to pick and choose.

2) I still find that heavy piraters are also have purchasers of content. The might not buy all the content they consume, but many tend of have large legitimate collections as well as their pirated collections.

[QUOTE=Zod;2773520]I think there’s a few arguments:

  1. Not every copy pirated is a lost sale. When the price is free people can consume an unlimited supply. If there were a price attached people would have to pick and choose.

  2. I still find that heavy piraters are also have purchasers of content. The might not buy all the content they consume, but many tend of have large legitimate collections as well as their pirated collections.[/QUOTE]
    Shhhh…the DMCA don’t want you to spread this FACT… it might hurt them…

[QUOTE=Zod;2773520]I think there’s a few arguments:

  1. Not every copy pirated is a lost sale. When the price is free people can consume an unlimited supply. If there were a price attached people would have to pick and choose.

  2. I still find that heavy piraters are also have purchasers of content. The might not buy all the content they consume, but many tend of have large legitimate collections as well as their pirated collections.[/QUOTE]

That would be my experience from the music community as well where even online auctions are vacumed for whatever little is left if I have made an ‘extremely hard to find’ album available.
It is actually easy to see for these releases and I’ve checked several times. Once there was nine copies available on the net and they had been for a week prior to me making my copy available. Less than 24 hours later all nine was gone. Isolated that could have been a coincident, but since I have done the same with almost all albums I have made available I ‘know’ it is related.
It is way harder to measure for available or otherwise mainstream albums of course, but the above indicates that the same holds true there and so yes, piracy generates sales as well.

Free is free to sample, then buy if it is interesting. There’s nothing quite like an original stamped silver CD, cover, liner notes and all :flower:

As for “Not every copy pirated is a lost sale”. That is absolutely correct, as I write above, it would basically mean giving up a life long hobby and start doing the rounds in my already vast collection only (will take ‘some’ years to complete just one round so I guess I already have enough for the remainder of my lifetime as it is) :wink:

When I was a kid piracy was pretty damn rampant too–I had over 1000+ movies and cartoons recorded on VHS taoes, I also had tons of songs recorded from the radio and friends on cassette tapes. Hell the movie and recording industry tried to ban VHS and cassette tapes for this very same reason. The large majority of the pirates that can afford content actually purchase a good amount of the stuff that they pirate and then you have those who cannot afford anything in the first place that pirate as well. Of course there are some people out there that won’t buy anything because they can pirate it but that is a small percentage of pirates in general.

They first tried to ban VHS, then priced their movies at a HUGE price, then eventually realized they could make bank renting and selling way cheaper, but they were dragged kicking and screaming to that point. I have cases full of movies I recorded off cable, I recorded music to my reel to reel from the radio, I also started buying albums, then CD’s, and DVD movies once I found ones I liked and the price approached something reasonable. My money doesn’t come easy so only the stuff I REALLY like earns it, and usually only when on a good sale too boot, why waste more of my money just so the industry can pad their profits on first day over priced releases.
If I really like something I found for free somewhere I tend to buy more of it to support the artist or actors I like. And I hate all DRM of any kind and want to do what I like with my media and they still don’t get that either and call everyone pirates and crap which just ticks off more users so they do it anyways just because they’re mad and don’t have unlimited funds.

In my opinion, piracy benefits the music industry, however, legal streaming services does the opposite.

By freely getting music, especially back at the time when people exchanged mix tapes and MP3-filled hard drives in the dial-up days, it was a great way of sampling music. For example, people would encounter songs they forgot the titles of or find new music. When I was at college, I used to browse other people’s collections and indeed bought quite a lot of CDs at the time.

I’m now a Google Music subscriber which gives me access to a pretty large library of music. If there’s any song or album I want to listen to, I just look it up and start playing it. However, as for wanting to buy the CD, I just can’t help getting the feeling that I’m already paying a subscription - Why would I want to buy the CD? Indeed, I haven’t bought a CD since subscribing to Google Music and can’t remember loading any disc I have bought as I just find it quicker to look it up and click ‘play’. The only exception I would consider is if there’s a local band playing live that I find interesting and want to support them.

If music downloads were offered in a lossless format such as FLAC and more reasonably priced (e.g. 10c / song), I would certainly consider buying individual songs knowing that I’m paying for premium quality downloads, unlike the MP3, AAC, WMA, etc. formats which are not even CD quality.

^ :iagree: - In your first view, you are even supported by the findings of this report posted earlier in here.

Streaming is in no way helping as that means it will mostly be music nutcases such as myself who will go for physical media if at all possible, while the casual listener could not care less as long as there are places like Google Music and Spotify, where they can stream the song they like to listen to… And with that the album format died, meaning concept recordings like ‘The Wall’, ‘Pink World’, ‘Quadrophenia’, ‘Consequences’ and others are no longer a feasible project… Sadly.

I think it’s true, illegal downloading is undesirable for the industry, but not to the extent Hollywood seems to want us to think. It certainly isn’t as bad as Hollywood thinking it’s OK to rob the public of its rights. Although I do want the entertainment industry to continues making works the public can enjoy, I am not willing to give up my freedom to help make these works.

Also, one thing I think is worth mentioning: if the major music and movie studios go out of business, new ones will come to take their place. I would love to see exactly that happen ASAP, since these studios have committed too many sins to be allowed to get away with their crimes.

Then again, maybe wishing death on these studios wouldn’t be that great. After all, these studios won’t go down without taking away as many human rights as possible, including the right to a fair trial, the right to free speech, the right to privacy, and worst-case-scenario, the right to democracy. They would rather hire political assassins than let the world be free.

So yes, illegal downloading isn’t good for the industry. But, that pales in comparison to stripping the public of the right to share one’s goods.