Please help! Has anyone solved the high Kprobe problem?

I’m getting horrible Kprobe scans from my 411. Most discs will peak at 1200 for PI and 200 for PO. They still play fine in my standalone player.

But I’m a bit worried that over time the discs will come unreadable if the disc is poorly written from the beginning.

I have tried more than 30 different brands of media. I tried putting the Liteon in another PC. Tried different burning applications and different firmware and much more. Still high error levels in Kprobe.

I’m starting to consider returning the drive for repair but before I do I hope someone in here have solved a similar problem.

My system:
AMD athlon XP 2000+
Nforce2
512MB ddr
maxtor 80gb @ primary master
Liteon 411s @ Secondary master

I know I have seen you around the forums recently and you have probably tried everything that I could recommend by now.

The only thing I can think of at the moment: is there any way you can try scanning the discs in another LiteOn DVD burner (perhaps at a local computer shop)? Maybe the errors being reported by your drive are wrong…

If you have tried that many types of media and after scanning the already burnt discs in another LiteOn DVD burner still have that bad of results I might begin to think you have a ‘bad’ drive.

Edit: Few more things, tried more then one version of Kprobe?
You have tried scanning the media in a different PC with your burner as well right?

At the moment I don’t have access to another Liteon drive for testing.

When I tried my 411s in another pc, I installed win2000 and nero 6.303, burned and scanned (kprobe 1.29) and same result. However, this machine was also an AMD system and using same software as I use at home. I might try the drive in an Intel system using win XP and recordnow just for completeness sake.

I would have returned the drive a long time ago if it was’nt for 2 things:

  1. The discs seems to work like a charm.
  2. When I write a dvd+rw and scan it I get near perfect result (pi around 50, PO around 20)

Well as they say if it the discs work like a charm then it doesn’t matter much what Kprobe says does it?

I hadn’t realized you haven’t tried RecordNow yet. For sure give that a go :iagree:
Also like I said try the above things as well.

Originally posted by Ssseth
Well as they say if it the discs work like a charm then it doesn’t matter much what Kprobe says does it?

You’re right. I don’t really care if the discs scans high as long as they work. But If the discs are only just within specs then what will happen to discs when they have been stored for months or years?

It may just be Kprobe that does’nt agree with my drive. :confused:

Originally posted by Ssseth
I hadn’t realized you haven’t tried RecordNow yet. For sure give that a go :iagree:
Also like I said try the above things as well.

I have tried Recordnow but only on my own computer (not the one I reinstalled for testing).
I already have tried the other thing you mentioned except from scanning a disc in another Liteon drive. I will try this as soon as I get access to another 411s drive (should be soon)

Thanks for your help, ssseth. :slight_smile:

Have you found any media that doesn’t work in your DVD player(s)? It would be nice to see how they scan.

My general take on Kprobe is that it’s a pretty good baseline test for your individual system. I have, what you might call, a low Kprobe problem. I have scanned some RitekG04 media (-R) that is well within spec, but doesn’t play well in 2 of my 3 standalone units. I have some Maxell RG02’s that scan better than the Riteks and they are rock solid in all of my players.

If you browse through the media testing forum, you’ll see some serious inconsistencies between tests on similar systems. This sometimes makes it difficult to draw general conclusions based on Kprobe results. If you look at results on a per-user basis, still there are inconsistencies, but it’s easier to differentiate the good from the bad.

I wouldn’t lose any sleep over Kprobe, buying quality media is your best bet against deteriation.

Actually, on that note, there isn’t enough solid information on media life expectancy to draw any conclusions either. I have read a couple posts, but who knows if they weren’t bad burns to begin with? I doubt that anyone who burns 200+ dvd’s have actually watched them all…which to me, is the only TRUE test.

Just my 2 cents…

@ Androlight

I saw you want to test your driven in a Intel system. I have a Intel system and also have problems.
Most + media shows much to high errors in K-Probe.

For example I have a Verbatim which is MCC02 which in my 811 scans like this:
PI max: 998 Avg:795,354
PO max: 82 Avg:9,284

But if I take it to one of my friends and test it in his 451 it scans like this:
PI max: 40 Avg:3,530
PO max: 7 Avg:0,077

He is running an AMD system.

These results are very consistent, about the same everytime.

This disc shows like flawless in Nero DVD-Speed and DVDinfo, and it plays without a problem in my very picky standalone DVD- Recorder (JVC) which has problems with discs that scans better in K-Probe.

OC-Freak has mentioned somewhere that he has noticed differences with fw:s and drives, but I´ve not seen if he has commented further on this matter.

My conclusion is that LiteOn:s must report differently depending on something, and therefore I dont scan with K-probe anymore.

There is one exception, OC-Freaks reviewing that is done with the same drive and firmware is very valueable.

@Androlight
Some of the 411 drives can burn good discs, but can’t read worth a crap, hense the high error rates. Take one of these discs and read it in another drive using CDSpeed’s transfer rate test. If it reads with no slow-down, it’s a good disc and your 411 is screwed up. Kprobe is not the problem, the drive is.

@ rdgrimes

Now that you mention it…

Take one of these discs and read it in another drive using CDSpeed’s transfer rate test

how come that my 811 gives this bad readings in Kprobe but in DVD Speed it shows the disc as flawless.

If the drive is a bad reader and reports errors in K-Probe should it not do the same in other programs??

Originally posted by Hawseman
Have you found any media that doesn’t work in your DVD player(s)? It would be nice to see how they scan.

I don’t have any scans available of discs that won’t play but I’ve noticed that they generally are high in PO, While PI is not much worse than the above scan (1000-1200)

Originally posted by Hawseman
My general take on Kprobe is that it’s a pretty good baseline test for your individual system.

I’m beginning to beleive this too. I’ll try to get one of my freinds to scan one of my discs in his Liteon to see if this really is the case

Originally posted by HotBlack
[B]@ Androlight

I saw you want to test your driven in a Intel system. I have a Intel system and also have problems.
Most + media shows much to high errors in K-Probe.

For example I have a Verbatim which is MCC02 which in my 811 scans like this:
PI max: 998 Avg:795,354
PO max: 82 Avg:9,284

But if I take it to one of my friends and test it in his 451 it scans like this:
PI max: 40 Avg:3,530
PO max: 7 Avg:0,077
[/B]

This is very interesting. I’ll try to verify these results when my freind receive his 411s.

If it’s actually just a matter of the drive reporting more errors than other drives then the use of Kprobe is limited to comparing one media to another in the same drive.

Originally posted by rdgrimes
@Androlight
Some of the 411 drives can burn good discs, but can’t read worth a crap, hense the high error rates. Take one of these discs and read it in another drive using CDSpeed’s transfer rate test. If it reads with no slow-down, it’s a good disc and your 411 is screwed up. Kprobe is not the problem, the drive is.

I already did, and 99% of the discs can be read fast and consistently. Still the bad Kprobe scans are worrying me. :Z

Just some thoughts:

If this is +R discs you may have scanning issues with firmwares newer than FS07 on the 411S to my experience. (That is why I use FS07 when scanning for my reviews).

Tried scanning at 2x speed or max speed instead of 4x?

If you do not already do: Use the M$ IDE drivers and not the nforce ones.

And yes: the 851S/451S drives do not have the +R scanning issues the 411/811S have it seems.

Originally posted by OC-Freak
[B]Just some thoughts:

If this is +R discs you may have scanning issues with firmwares newer than FS07 on the 411S to my experience. (That is why I use FS07 when scanning for my reviews).

Tried scanning at 2x speed or max speed instead of 4x?

If you do not already do: Use the M$ IDE drivers and not the nforce ones.

And yes: the 851S/451S drives do not have the +R scanning issues the 411/811S have it seems. [/B]

Maybe I’m unlucky, but I have the same problem as stated above with high PI/PO error rates but no errors or playback problems. I’ve recently had 3x 8x1 drives (2x811s(jan04), and an 851s(dec03)) all produced the same high error rate for the Memorex/Ricoh 4x media.

In fact media burned by a NEC2500 and an Optorite DD0401 produce similar high error rates when read with the 8x1 drives using kprobe. I eventually returned one of the 811 in exchange for an NEC2500 because the first write to a Memorex/Ricoh 4x drive produced a coaster and when viewing the bottom of the burned disk you could see light and dark patches in the media (looked like fish scales).

I did have a 451@851 that produced some good results, but I sold that. Those good disks were re-read on the new 811 and 851 with the same high error rates.

I can’t believe that I’ve been that unlucky to get so many bad (high PO/PI read errors) drives, 6 in total. But as suggested, I’ll ignore the error rates because the disk produced are readable in everything and because the 811 and 851 were cheap enough after rebate ($26).

I have similar problems. I always get high error rates with my 451s at the begin of the dics. The discs are playing well in stand-alone player and in different DVD-drives on PC. I tested files and surface with Nero CD/DVD-Speed. Didn´t got a single read-error. I tried Verbatims, TDKs and at the end Plextor which are Taiyo Yuden. Actually I get the worst KProbe-scans with the Plextor discs, but still no read-errors…

For me there is a reason why KProbe is still unofficial:

IT IS WORKING PROPERLY !!!

btw Writing quality has almost nothing to do with longterm stability of the discs.

Some of the discs that had high KProbe scans started to skip and freeze in my standalone players. So the discs ARE poorly written. I returned the drive to the vendor and he gave me a 451s in exchange. This is a typical Ricoh scan from the 411s:


Now, a Ricoh disc from the same spindle but written with the 451 looks like this:

Hmmm… for some reason I’m unable to upload pictures :confused:

Anyway, peak PO errors has gone from 500 something to 5!

:cool:

I’m having the same results as you are, high kprobes but all my discs were readable in my 2 DVD players, both very picky.

The skipping / freezing is more related to bad media. I’ve seen people having freezing problem even on rental DVDs, it could also be a problem with the DVD player itself, especially if the freezing gets worse.

All of my CD-Rs burnt with my 811 give EXCELLENT Kprobe reads.

When I use Maxell 4x DVD+R which have code of RICOHJPN R01 the error rates in Kprobe are very high, pretty disappointing.

When I use Memorex 4x DVD+R which has the same code of RICOHJPN R01, the KPROBES are well within specs with the highest PI I’ve had was 120 and PO of 5.

Someone gave me a princo DVD-R with extremely high PIs (over 1000) and it played fine without any skips on 2 very picky DVD players.

Something you should watch for is high PO levels. Some discs may report a very high PI, but PO within specs or spikes. Those that report consistently high POs will likely cause trouble.