Pioneer DVR-K05 - choking during burns

br0adband 2005-09-14 22:34:34 UTC #1

Hi there,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I recently purchased a DVR-K05 slot loader to put in my Dell Inspiron 4150 laptop (P4 1.7, 1GB PC2100 CAS2, 40GB 5400 rpm drive, etc). I'm using DVD+R 8x media - I use Sony 8x Accucore media presently. Haven't tried any dual layer stuff yet; the media is just too damned expensive for me. Also using Nero 6.6.0.15A for the burning software - and DVDDecrypter whenever I come across an .mds file along with the files. I've also used DVDShrink to back up 2 of my own DVDs I purchased just to get familiar with the software.

The problem I'm about to describe happens with all the software I've tried so far.

The issue I'm having is that when burning DVD material (vobs, etc) or even just burning data to a DVD+R or DVD+RW in general for backups, at around the 6-7% point in the process the drive will "choke" (I can't think of a better description, sorry). It just stops, the RAM buffer drops to 10% and sits there, the drive makes some noises indicating activity, and then it will spin down totally for a few seconds, then some more noise and it starts spinning back up and the buffer pops back to 98-99% full and things continue.

This sometimes happens several times during a burn, but in the end the burns all come out ok - I verify every single disc I burn. Even DVD+R or DVD+RW media isn't as cheap as CDRs so I'm still leery of just burning and not verifying. I'm not in that much of a hurry anyway.

Has anyone else seen this type of behavior before in a DVD burner they own? The drive choking at various points then restarting and the burns turn out ok anyway? If it's the brand/type of media I'm using, I hope someone will say so and then I'll find something else. For years I've used strictly TDK CDRs and nothing else, never had any issues. I was considering using TDK DVD media this time out but the Sony stuff seems ok unless someone can point me to a definitive source that flat out says "Sony DVD media sucks and here's why..."

Also, when burning CDRs (TDK) this choking behavior never happens; it's only when burning DVD media. It happens on DVD+R or +RW and I have some Memorex DVD+RW discs as well as Sony DVD+RW's. Same behavior at almost the same percentage points in the burn.

The firmware on this drive is 1.03 and that's the latest available from Pioneer. I keep seeing mentions of DVRFlash but I'm not about to toy with that sort of software just yet; besides, I don't think much can be done with this drive anyway. But who knows...

Hope someone can assist, and thanks for the help.

Have fun, always...
bb

chef 2005-09-15 00:10:30 UTC #2

This is normal and related to the used writing method!
When burning DVDs faster than 4x, the drive has to shift up the speed. To achieve this, it has to cycle down and then cycle up again.

br0adband 2005-09-15 14:15:59 UTC #3

Sounds like a perfectly legitimate reason for the choking to me. Unless someone else contradicts it, I guess that's my answer.

Thanks!
bb

QuaiBoy 2005-09-15 20:00:21 UTC #4

It's totally correct. It's zoned writing, probably Z-CLV (zone constant linear velocity). Can also cause some media to have different shaded bands of color on the burning surface after writing. Totally normal.

-Evan-

thilorising 2005-09-18 05:30:18 UTC #5

I've just upgraded my Dell Inspiron 8200 with the K05. Same feature, only mine won't burn at 8x speed. Well, it says it does, but it takes as long as 4x speed (15mins). Is this the case with your Dell 4150?

Media: Verbatim 8x DVD-R
Hardware: Inspiron 8200, with 7200rpm HD (very fast!), P4 2Ghz, c750Mb RAM.
Pioneer DVR-K05 does have Ultra DMA 2 enabled.

Nero can read the data off the HD at x20 so I can't see the laptop being the problem.

Any ideas?

QuaiBoy 2005-09-18 09:38:08 UTC #6

Have you tried any other media? The drive might not speed up if it checks the media and it doesn't think it will work.
Also, try a Nero CD/DVD Speed test on a BLANK piece of media and post the results.

-Evan-

thilorising 2005-09-19 03:26:34 UTC #7

Nero CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info
Basic Information
Disc Type: : DVD-R
Book Type : DVD-R
Manufacturer: : Verbatim
MID : MCC 02RG20
Write speeds: : 2 X - 4 X - 6 X - 8 X
Blank Capacity : 4.38 GB
: 4488 MB
: 4706076672 bytes
Extended Information
Layers : 1
Usage : General
Copyright protection : n/a
Recorder information : recorded with PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-K05
Disc Status : Empty
Raw Data
Pre-recorded Information in Lead-in (0Eh)
0000 - 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 85 0D 10 88 9A 80 00 - .@....R.........
0010 - 03 4D 43 43 20 30 32 00 04 52 47 32 30 20 20 00 - .MCC.02..RG20...
0020 - 05 88 80 00 00 00 02 00 DC D4 05 00 8B 03 FF FF - ................
0030 - 48 D5 05 00 F0 88 FA 77 60 38 F5 77 FF FF FF FF - H......w8.w.... 0040 - E3 39 F9 77 FE 18 DD 77 3B 19 DD 77 60 F7 01 13 - .9.w...w;..w...
0050 - 02 00 00 80 1C 00 00 00 0B 00 00 00 58 00 00 00 - ............X...
0060 - 1C 00 00 00 80 D5 05 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 - ........@.......

Is this the information?

I'll be trying another burn on some new media I'm expecting soon - TDK 1-16x, just to make sure it's not a media problem. I'm hoping that 16x good quality media will at least burn at the 8x promised by the drive.

To elaborate on the problem, I also used a Lacie external firewire HD as the source, which should eliminate the possibility of an IDE related bottleneck (K05 and HD are on the same chain). There result is the same 13 minute burn for an alleged 8x speed write.

Oh joy!

thilorising 2005-09-19 04:27:07 UTC #8

Results from Nero CD Speed Test, 'Create Data Disk'

Write Transfer Rate

Write Mode DAO
Start 2.00x
End 8.00x
Average 5.21x
Type Z-CLV

Log

Time Elapsed Action
[11:49:26] Starting Transfer Rate Test
[11:49:27] Error - NO ADDITIONAL SENSE INFORMATION (080000)
[11:49:32] Creating Data Disc
[12:03:23] 13:51 Speed:2-8 X Z-CLV (5.21 X average)

Note the time it took! Nearly quarter of an hour! Admittedly, the read quality test was perfect (all 'green'). It appears there's no functional difference between a 4x and 8x speed drive - from Pioneer, anyway. 'Bit of a con', is the phrase which springs to mind!

QuaiBoy 2005-09-19 07:58:08 UTC #9

Yeah, looks like that is right for that drive. That's really unfortunate because I was looking to get one for my laptop. I can't believe it starts 8x Z-CLV writing at 2x! I guess I'll stick with an external solution until something better comes along.

-Evan-

Wesociety 2005-09-19 11:07:55 UTC #10

This is normal for slimline drives.
Check our Optorite TED80Y1 slimline review.
You must keep in mind that this is a different class of hardware all together and can not perform up to par with half-height internal DVD burners.

thilorising 2005-09-20 03:56:23 UTC #11

At least I now know that the drive and setup are not faulty. Thank you for clearing that up.

From what I'm reading, such 8x or 4x speed claims appear to be disingenuous and meaningless points of comparison, which is quite annoying for the ordinary consumer. Then again, I can't see manufacturers of slimline drives stating that their new 8x drives have the performance of a 2 year old obsolete 4x speed HH drive!

Oh well. We live and learn.

djinky 2005-10-01 05:09:40 UTC #12

Hey, guys

First of all, thanks for the info you posted for Br0adband regarding the "choking" - I've had the exact same issues with this drive in my iBook during the burning process, and from what all of you say it appears totally normal. I too noticed that I get no change in speed when burning at 8x or 6x, which verifies what you say.

However... It seems my drive is spitting out dodgy discs, and I'm not sure if it is the drive which is malfunctioning or if I am chosing bad media or a bad way of burning;
My burning software gives no errors what so ever during the process, everything is a-ok, but an unusual high percentage of the discs that I burn (8x TDK DVD+R's) come out dodgy - like 50% of them - but they are not typical "coasters" that can't be read at all, but rather there seem to be sporadic errors on varying places of the disc, resulting that some files can be read, and some can't be read.

The error that comes up while reading the discs is that at some point in the file the drive stop its activity and goes down in speed, then it spins up for like 1.5 second and instantly spin down, then up and down, up and down.. "choking" or "coughing", some how just like it does during burning, but at a faster pace, and it just can't seem to get past these certain points in the files when I am trying to copy them back to my hard drive (I always do this to verify what I burn). I've also tried reading the specific errored files on the discs in other DVD-readers, and they can't read them either, which tells me the discs really are bad burns.

I've tried different brands of DVD discs and there is no difference. Is this a common problem? Is it a typical sign of a malfunctioning drive? Could it be that the file errors occur at the exact points where these "spin down/up throttling"-zones come during burning? I could really do with some help, guys..

/ R

lopies 2005-10-01 08:10:19 UTC #13

I'm having the same excact problem as you djinky. Even after the 1.11 firmware update. I got ahold of a tech at Pioneer and he said that it was more likely bad media. He instructed me only to use media from japan. I've been using TDK dvd-r with my A08 and have had very good results. Verbatium seems to work real well with this drive. But is kinda pricey. So I ordered some Taiyo Yuden 8X DVD-R from Supermedia.com. I'm stll having the same problem. I've since rma'd the drive back to egghead.com. I'm gonna try another drive. If I recieve the same results im gonna ask for a refund.

djinky 2005-10-01 09:46:06 UTC #14

Firmware 1.11? For the Pioneer DVR-K05? That must be totally new, I can't recall seeing anything else than 1.03 when I checked Pioneers website 3 days ago. Maybe it'll help for my part.. though I doubt it, somehow.. appears to be a malfunctioning drive, really.

lopies 2005-10-01 13:21:25 UTC #15

Opps I have the k-15. But I thought these were almost identical except for the different loading options.

DJ_BIS 2006-03-06 14:19:09 UTC #16

I am having similar problems with my DVR-K05.

Drive is burning dodgey Taiyo Yuden CDR discs, same with the TDK's.

I did not know that because the drive is Slim it won't perform like other standard size drives. This sucks if its indeed true.

Pioneer Customer service has had me on hold for over 20 minutes already, so I guess I will post my logs and results here for all of you to see. Its clear that the drive is having problems burning at the faster speeds 8X+, based on our findings.

In addition:

Lead-in

Drive cannot read data from the Lead-in

Lead-out

Drive cannot read data from the Lead-out

Did anybody find a good slim drive to replace this Pio model? They just released a K06, its for sale on Newegg, the K05 is no longer listed.

PS: Just got done talking to Pioneer support. He said these drives are basically what they are. No Firmware updates for them, if they work they work, if they don't just exchange/return. What a shame.

chef 2006-03-07 01:20:33 UTC #17

They are always slower...

DJ_BIS 2006-03-07 03:00:26 UTC #18

This MATSHITA Slim Drive does a great job and is very fast, however its very picky in regards to what it reads. So as long as the CD is clear of scratches and other errors it does better than my old Desktop writer and that Pioneer I just returned.

Hopefully I can find another slim drive that can kick butt. Thanks chef!