Pioneer BDXL BDR-XD04 Slim Burner Internals Revealed!

vbimport

#1

Hey guys,

Just recently purchased the Pioneer slim BDXL burner in the States. I think this drive is pretty nifty in that it will be playing next generation blu ray discs.

Now some might say, well the discs are so expensive - what’s the point? Why not just buy a hard disk drive right?

Well it’s not quite that easy. Optical media still serves a strong purpose, you can see the data on the flip side directly. With flash drive hard drives, you can’t, it’s enclosed in a box, and there can be problems since all the data is stored on one box. You can buy multiple hdd but I’ve read so many reports of faulty hdd’s.

Just had a few questions and some of you are quite well "in the know’ on burners and optical tech. I wanted to get a good discussion going on these new BDXL burners.

I bought this BDXL burner because I wanted something more “future proof”…and as it stands, I don’t know if it’s possible to firmware hack an older pioneer burner like, say, (the popular bdr-206[not MBK version]) to burn BDXL discs.

Question 1: Do you guys know if this is possible? Can a firmware flash change the way a burner can burn discs?

Because I was interested in knowing what exactly makes a burner burn a BDXL disc over a regular BD disc. Perhaps a stronger laser diode, and a new chipset? Can’t figure out how a chipset could initialize the tech though…some of you techies can give me more insight cause I’m fascinated to learn this stuff.

I also realize the chipset in a burner can be a significant difference, and I found some pictures on the internals of this new drive. Turns out this pioneer has a Renesas R8J32740FP44 [SIZE=3]chipset.

Here’s the Internals courtesy of: http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/bdrxd04j/bdrxd04j_top.htm

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]

And here’s a more thorough pic of the major components

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]
Question 2: Anyone know what that MediaLogic chip is/does? I assume the Renesas is the heart, the main chipset. This is interesting…hmm…

Turns out this chipset is also shared by the larger half drive; Pioneer BDR-207MBK (newer model)

Question 3: I’d like to use great media to take advantage of the drive…I’ve read up on SmartBlu…unfortunately it’s only sold by Media Mall in the US. I’m in Canada…and they don’t accept international credit cards…guess that means I’m out of luck on that one? And Falcon discs here are expensive! I’ve wanted to grab some Verbatim’s…but I’ve seen some as having the CMC code! the horror lol…

As I said I’d like to get a good discussion on this stuff going if possible. Thanks for your feedback and comments! :slight_smile:

-Your friendly neighbourhood Canadian
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#2

[QUOTE=ne0nlightz;2624462]Hey guys,

Just recently purchased the Pioneer slim BDXL burner in the States. I think this drive is pretty nifty in that it will be playing next generation blu ray discs.

Because I was interested in knowing what exactly makes a burner burn a BDXL disc over a regular BD disc. [B]Perhaps a stronger laser diode, and a new chipset?[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly.


#3

thanks Chef for that, I’ll have to try and see if I can modify a existing dvd burner to burn blu ray’s then with few hacks ;).

did you/or anyone else have any idea on what that medialogic chip is for?


#4

The MLDU01 is for [U]USB to SATA[/U], AFAIK.

Have seen the XD04 now available even online.

I’d like to know if its equal or better than the XL capable drives from Samsung and LG…


#5

Thanks Chef~

The LG and the SONY BDXL burners don’t burn/support the QUAD layer BDXL discs. They only burn Triple Layer (TL) discs…not (QL) quad layer.

The Samsung would seem a good alternative. And the Asus smells like a rebadge…possibly of the Pioneer Bdr-XD04.

The ASUS BDXL drive only has 2mb buffer…the Pioneer has 4mb buffer.

Out of the big manufacturers that have a BDXL drive (Samsung, Pioneer, Sony, Asus, LG) the Sony has a 5.8 Mb Buffer.

Not sure how important having as big a buffer as possible really is. I would have gone with the Sony if it supported QL discs in the future…as for being future proof.

I know all this cause I did some in depth research before I bought the pioneer :wink:


#6

[B]Good catch![/B]

BD QL only refers to BD-R burning, RE is not planned or announced.

I also favour the Sammy and the Pioneer drives when it comes to BluRay burners. :slight_smile:


#7

haha yeah…

We’re only on layers 1-4 right now. BDXL being the fourth layer.

Blu Ray could go for more but I anticipate seeing a hologram disc format in the next 10 years ;). God I love innovation. Just wish we had more of a free market and less corporations working together to reduce competition.

Case in point - Intel and AMD were found to be ‘setting prices’ a few years ago because of their market dominance. Imagine how much further our technology could be today if we had a true free market system. The new zen flat book laptops is really old tech and we have pretty advanced tech today as it stands.

And the reason I dislike LG is because they were implementing that RipLock B.S. on their drives. What a cop out for the copyright lobbyist industry. These guys want to circumvent and lock us out of our own hardware. Sony was caught in the DRM scandal as well.

I don`t think Pioneer has done anything like this as of yet. (atleast I hope) but Pioneer is an empty shell of a great giant it used to be. Globalization and the love of shareholder profits has reduced great corporations down into producing watered down products to increase profits. :(…


#8

The Asus SBW-06C2-X-U is a Sony Optiarc rebadge which has 8MB buffer.


#9

uh what? How are you so sure?

That Asus has a 2MB data buffer. It’s right there on the same link you posted…

And the Sony Optiarc I think you’re referring to…is the Sony BDX-S600U. That’s the only one with BDXL from Sony so far. And no, that burner has a buffer of 5.8MB (As i stated earlier).

What makes you think the Asus is a rebadge of the Sony? The Sony only burns up to 100gb discs (Triple Layer only).

Quad Layer Blu Ray Discs go to 128gb not 100gb…and that’s why it’s denoted as (QL).

Also, the Asus model has the ability to burn Quad Layer. So there’s only a few options that remain here…since I can’t remember the last time Asus actually made their own burners. Asus makes alot of other things but not their burners.

Here’s the following scenarios:

  1. Your Scenario. Somehow the Asus is a rebadge of the Sony, yet it also is able to burn QL and it’s buffer was reduced due to some kind of firm ware…down to 2MB

  2. My Scenario. The Asus is not a rebadge of the Sony at all, considering it burns to a higher capacity and layer than the former yet has a much lower buffer.

Speculation ---- The Asus must be a rebadge of the Pioneer,Samsung, or it must be a copy of a Liteon BDXL which may be released soon.

Besides, does having a bigger buffer really matter these days? I can’t remember the last time a slim drive even had a 8MB buffer.


#10

[QUOTE=ne0nlightz;2625731]uh what? How are you so sure?

That Asus has a 2MB data buffer. It’s right there on the same link you posted…

[/QUOTE]

It is not the first time that the official site gives incorrect information.


#11

The Asus SBW-06C2-X-U is a Optiarc BD-5750H clone.

— Start of identification —
Version: 1.61
Normal : Optiarc - BD RW BD-5750H - 1.00
Boot : Optiarc - BD RW BD-5750H - 0003
|************************************************|
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
4237354541303030302E3141
— End of identification —

— Start of identification —
Version: 1.61
Normal : ASUS - SBW-06C2X-U - C502
Boot : ASUS - SBW-06C2X-U - 0003
|************************************************|
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
4237354541303030302E3141
— End of identification —


#12

Thanks [B]2601[/B] for the updates. :bow:


#13

How’s that possible?

I checked the Sony optiarc website here: http://www.sony-optiarc.us/en/products/slim-line-drives/bd-5750h

That Sony Drive doesn’t even SUPPORT BDXL (TL or QL). That Sony Optiarc also has a 5.8 MB buffer.

I see the figure you’ve uploaded 2601, but how is this possible? The Sony doesn’t read OR burn BDXL discs!

Unless you’re telling me that the Sony website also has a chance to be wrong. That’ seems highly unlikely that now 2 different manufacturers would mess up on something like a buffer size. Also BDXL is not listed on the Optiarc drive.

Another interesting thing::::::: Even according to your Opti Drive Control picture, that drive does not state it writes BDXL (TL) or (QL) discs.

Does your burner look like the first or the second?

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=84&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1760&bih=761&tbm=isch&tbnid=Lp0sT82EbBSiQM:&imgrefurl=http://www.f1cd.ru/show/38977/&docid=C5Wl2tt8SEM8cM&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.f1cd.ru/d/9/66/19599/103/38977.png&w=924&h=1357&ei=b9laT_mYDsX-ggfn1vGhCw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=220&sig=105176668156720648324&page=3&tbnh=140&tbnw=95&ndsp=46&ved=1t:429,r:20,s:84&tx=80&ty=39

The first one is an older model that does not burn BDXL discs. The second does, but it JUST came out maybe a month ago. Your’ drive states it was manufactured back in September!

Something’s up here. Investigation needed. Something doesn’t make sense.


#14

My Pioneer BDXL drive I bought in February, was Manufactured in December 2011. That’s really recent. Something seems off on the product line somewhere


#15

[QUOTE=ne0nlightz;2625992]Unless you’re telling me that the Sony website also has a chance to be wrong. That’ seems highly unlikely that now 2 different manufacturers would mess up on something like a buffer size. Also BDXL is not listed on the Optiarc drive.[/quote] Copying and pasting information [however erroneous or incomplete] is quite likely for these scenarios. The European Sony Optiarc website hosts a .pdf file [direct link to “Sope_Brochure__Autumn_2011_English_final.pdf”] that DOES list BDXL as a feature of the very drive in question.

The buffer capacity is still a mismatch to the ASUS, but looking at the full height BD Writer listed in the same “brochure”, it’s likely that the full 8MB buffer is there. Anecdotally, there are a number of drives out, with rebadges, there that with the “original” firmware will report one buffer size (say a LiteOn reports 1536KB, for example), but with another firmware for a rebadged version of the drive, will report a different size (say the comparable ASUS rebadge reports a full 2MB, for example). It’s all dependent upon how things are allocated/reported/etc.

Another interesting thing::::::: Even according to your Opti Drive Control picture, that drive does not state it writes BDXL (TL) or (QL) discs.
ODC 1.50 was released in Sept 2010. The BDXL standard was finalized in July 2010, or thereabouts. ODC simply does not “check” for that capability; it lists all the capabilities for which it does check.


#16

Wow, Albert you are a BEAST.

Many thanks for clearing this up, I had NO idea there was this scale of product differentiation just in a different region. Wow. Truly commendable search skills. Companies have been engaging in market segmentation for many many years. Certain companies like Asus design their products, and get the internals stuffed the same.

This is apparent in many, many, other electronic accessories as well. Infrared Laser Thermometers, Security Surveillance Cameras, etc etc. It seems the firmware seems to be key for the electronic gadgets industry.

This is crazy news! Because even according to that brochure you had posted Albert, that Sony 5750H doesn’t burn to QL (Quad Layer). Only to TL, whereas the Asus model does.

So by conducting some possibilities…since the Asus seems to be a direct rebadge, that means that with just a firmware tweak, any burner using that basic badged drive SHOULD be able to burn QL discs, if the Asus (which is a rebadge of it) can do it.

This has huge implications. And if I may Albert, just wanted to propose another question to you. I’m interested in this purely for my inquisitiveness :stuck_out_tongue:

I have long suspected, that BDXL might just be some kind of scheme for manufacturers to charge more for another new burner to burn new discs. It’s just a hunch, but wanted to test it out. Problem is its hard to find service manuals for these new bdxl drives to see their laser components. Unless the laser diode is different, it must mean just changing/tweaking/flashing the firmware, could grant access to the BDXL format, provided it uses the correct chipset.

Would I be wise in making that statement Albert?


#17

@ne0nlightz

[QUOTE=2601;2625749]It is not the first time that the official site gives incorrect information.[/QUOTE]

I’ve told you before. Please read carefully at the below link. I do not suggest anyone to waste their times about that again.

http://www.sony-optiarc.eu/en/products/bluraydrivesnotebooks/slimlinebdxlwriter5750.html


#18

thanks 2601, just saw it on there listed