Pioneer 115D

Does anyone know if this will be available in the states soon?

Give it time. Go online if you need it now! :wink:

Hmm, luckily I didn’t buy a 112D. I’ll either get this 115D or a Liteon 20A4P.

I just hope it doesn’t have any hardware problems that plagued the earlier 112 units.

[QUOTE=SSJ4 Vegetto;1934141]I just hope it doesn’t have any hardware problems that plagued the earlier 112 units.[/QUOTE]

They won’t. This issue was not a design or hardware problem but was caused by an external supplier, and it won’t happen again.

Why get a DH20A4P when you can flash your LH-20A1P with DH20A4P firmare like I have?

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

[QUOTE=Brad-Pioneer;1934144]They won’t. This issue was not a design or hardware problem but was caused by an external supplier, and it won’t happen again.[/QUOTE]

That’s good to hear.

What about the PIF spikes on DVD+R media at faster write speeds with the 112 drives? Has that problem also been fixed in the 115 series drives?

[QUOTE=terminalvelocd;1934145]Why get a DH20A4P when you can flash your LH-20A1P with DH20A4P firmare like I have?

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD[/QUOTE]

Its because the 20A1P unit I have is very loud. A friend of mine has a 20A1P with a June 2007 manufacture date and it isn’t anywhere near as loud as mine so the reason I want to get a 20A4P as a replacement is because it will be quiet and have a recent manufacture date.

The loudness is pretty much the only thing I hate about my LiteOn.

[QUOTE=SSJ4 Vegetto;1934653]What about the PIF spikes on DVD+R media at faster write speeds with the 112 drives? Has that problem also been fixed in the 115 series drives?[/QUOTE]

I’m going to try to sum up something and paraphrase what has been an ongoing discussion, so don’t take this as gospel.

I’m still discussing this with our engineers, but I would say this will not be any different to the 112/212. Essentially our position is that there won’t be any problems reading the discs, despite what is reported by scanning with a LiteOn drive.

I have had very detailed discussions over a period of time with our engineers and they are extremely confident that this is an anomaly and more to do with the drive reading than a fault on the disc.

Opinions are very much split between people who know better than me about whether these spikes mean anything or not.

Basically - CodeKing has raised the question of whether you would keep something you want to watch in 10 years plus on something you burned at high speed on a DVD+R disc. I’d kinda say no, if you want to keep something for a longer time and it means something to you, then there’s Archival grade media for that, and I think this offers much more of a guarantee than ANYTHING else.

[QUOTE=Brad-Pioneer;1934723]I’m going to try to sum up something and paraphrase what has been an ongoing discussion, so don’t take this as gospel.

I’m still discussing this with our engineers, but I would say this will not be any different to the 112/212. Essentially our position is that there won’t be any problems reading the discs, despite what is reported by scanning with a LiteOn drive.

I have had very detailed discussions over a period of time with our engineers and they are extremely confident that this is an anomaly and more to do with the drive reading than a fault on the disc.

Opinions are very much split between people who know better than me about whether these spikes mean anything or not.

Basically - CodeKing has raised the question of whether you would keep something you want to watch in 10 years plus on something you burned at high speed on a DVD+R disc. I’d kinda say no, if you want to keep something for a longer time and it means something to you, then there’s Archival grade media for that, and I think this offers much more of a guarantee than ANYTHING else.[/QUOTE]

I can tell you this, as long as this anomaly is there people wont trust those burns for anything important. The solution is to drop down to 12X. For me 12X burns of MCC -r’s is as fast or faster than 16X burns in my Liteons with much better quality scans.
That said the overall quality of burns with my 112D are far better then any other burner, especially DL discs. The only exception is the +R high speed spikes that may cause a playback issue on some players.
Without this issue I think the majority of people around here would consider this to be the best burner of the current crop.

[QUOTE=Brad-Pioneer;1934723]I’m going to try to sum up something and paraphrase what has been an ongoing discussion, so don’t take this as gospel.

I’m still discussing this with our engineers, but I would say this will not be any different to the 112/212. Essentially our position is that there won’t be any problems reading the discs, despite what is reported by scanning with a LiteOn drive.

I have had very detailed discussions over a period of time with our engineers and they are extremely confident that this is an anomaly and more to do with the drive reading than a fault on the disc.

Opinions are very much split between people who know better than me about whether these spikes mean anything or not.

Basically - CodeKing has raised the question of whether you would keep something you want to watch in 10 years plus on something you burned at high speed on a DVD+R disc. I’d kinda say no, if you want to keep something for a longer time and it means something to you, then there’s Archival grade media for that, and I think this offers much more of a guarantee than ANYTHING else.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t it funny that the NEC chipset is the one that causes this problem and every LiteOn ever made, over I don’t know how many MTK chipsets and over multiple development teams, even going back to the LiteOn 451S, still shows these PIF spikes. :confused:

Perhaps the reason MTK chipset based drives don’t produce this “anomaly” is because they used LiteOn drives as diagnostic scanners in the early days. :wink:

[B]Edit:[/B] In fact, thinking about it, even the early LiteOn’s produced these PIF spikes, at the Z-CLV speed change points, but later models/chipsets fortunately were able to remedy this problem, as it did cause uncorrectable read errors with some media back then as well.

[QUOTE=nickyboy4;1934732]I can tell you this, as long as this anomaly is there people wont trust those burns for anything important. The solution is to drop down to 12X. For me 12X burns of MCC -r’s is as fast or faster than 16X burns in my Liteons with much better quality scans.[/QUOTE]

So I guess we agree then :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=nickyboy4;1934732]The only exception is the +R high speed spikes that may cause a playback issue on some players.[/QUOTE]

I’ve not once seen these PIF spikes cause playback issues or errors in reading the data back off the disc. The supposition is that if the disc degrades, this PIF spike might then become an uncorrectable error, but its a bloody tricky thing to prove, isn’t it?

[QUOTE=Brad-Pioneer;1934811]So I guess we agree then :slight_smile:

I’ve not once seen these PIF spikes cause playback issues or errors in reading the data back off the disc. The supposition is that if the disc degrades, this PIF spike might then become an uncorrectable error, but its a bloody tricky thing to prove, isn’t it?[/QUOTE] Why not eleminate the spikes and remove any spectulation? Surely pioneer could find a fix.

[QUOTE=ntss;1934815]Why not eleminate the spikes and remove any spectulation? Surely pioneer could find a fix.[/QUOTE]

Basically the spikes are a result of the conducting OPC corrections to the write power during burning to ensure quality, and if you don’t do this you will have a lower quality overall, so its a trade-off.

Problem with the spikes themselves is that your result is always tainted by the reader.

Basically as I have said, despite LiteOn drives reporting the spikes, we have never seen a case where a disc would not play as a result of such a spike, and if someone has one, I’d like to see it.

Brad,

That is exactly what I have maintained all along. The slightly out-of-spec PIF spikes are caused by the OPC taking regular samples from the disc, and adjusting laser power accordingly. The result is a very well written disc. Compared to LiteON and Samsung drives (which have very weak OPC thanks to the Mediatek chipset and related components), Pioneer drives perform much better with variable quality media.

Regards,
TerminalVeloCD

No doubt TVCD, I never doubted what anybody was saying here but when people who obviously have a strong knowledge and passion disagree I felt I had to do the right thing and interrogate the engineers, which was no casual endeavor!

At least now I understand the problem and our engineer’s comments on it for me have put it into perspective.

[QUOTE=Brad-Pioneer;1934833]Basically the spikes are a result of the conducting OPC corrections to the write power during burning to ensure quality, and if you don’t do this you will have a lower quality overall, so its a trade-off.

Problem with the spikes themselves is that your result is always tainted by the reader.

Basically as I have said, despite LiteOn drives reporting the spikes, we have never seen a case where a disc would not play as a result of such a spike, and if someone has one, I’d like to see it.[/QUOTE]It seems their are different points of view on these spikes. I guess it is up to pioneer how to handle this but I dont like spikes and what I purchase is up to me. I guess I will need more convincing. I thought surely the very smart people at pioneer could overcome this spike issue.

I’m sure Pioneer can. The question is fixing one problem introduce another when it comes time to burn? Will the drives end up making blocks of PIE/PIF with peaks higher than the current spikes? Will the drive be able to react as fast as it does to poor quality media?

Just look at how much work LiteOn is doing to make sure that its OPC works to its best capability on the DH-20A3x series. When you fix 1 thing, some other minor issue crops up.

[QUOTE=wallace0134;1935101]I’m sure Pioneer can. The question is fixing one problem introduce another when it comes time to burn? Will the drives end up making blocks of PIE/PIF with peaks higher than the current spikes? Will the drive be able to react as fast as it does to poor quality media?

Just look at how much work LiteOn is doing to make sure that its OPC works to its best capability on the DH-20A3x series. When you fix 1 thing, some other minor issue crops up.[/QUOTE] I am also sure they could overcome all issues. I wonder if the question is time and money as much as anything? I guess we get what we are willing to pay for.

If only they would overcome all issues, it would be amazing. :iagree:

[QUOTE=PSHAW;1935124]I am also sure they could overcome all issues. I wonder if the question is time and money as much as anything? I guess we get what we are willing to pay for.[/QUOTE] I would pay more if they offered more.

You can order from this site.
http://www.eaglebit.com/Pioneer_DVR_115DBK_20x_IDE_DVD_RW_Drive_p/eb-150-00083.htm