Pio 111D@111L TY02 at 8x or 12x?

I recently burned a TY02 8x at 12x because… well because it said it could. :bigsmile:

Later, I scanned the disk with the Pio and at the 12x speed increase the PIE jumped. This result had me thinking it was best to stick with 8x burns. Then I started to read around a bit more on these forums and realized that the Pio is not the best scanner out there. I naturally scanned the disk with my Litey and the PIE jump at 12x did not happen.

Should I trust my Litey and burn at 12x, seemingly with no consequences, or should I stick with 8x? The media is rated for 8x burns of course but faster without loss of quality is ok in my book.

If it’s important data i burn my TY02’s at 8X with any of my burners. Kind of up to you on how fast to burn them at i’d say.

And i’d trust the Litey scan :wink: What model is the Litey?

It is a Litey 851s@832. It has not seem many “miles” but being a litey I do trust it. After all, Liteys did not get the reputation of being great scanners over night. A reputation like that takes time to build so I guess I can trust it even if it is a bit older.

You got me curious… I am running a 111D@111L and I did some burn tests for you with my TYG02 Media.

I did the 12x burn/scan test twice since the 1st disc had a really nasty section - was it related to burning at 12x? I doubt it but its always possible.

Based on the results below, I’d say burning at 12x is just fine but use 8x if your burning something irreplaceable because lower is always better. The PIE/PIF totals on the 12x scan are higher but well within the safe range. All of the burns below (even the 1st 12x scan) seem to be acceptable to me, but others can feel free to interject and offer some additional insight.

Have fun!

I am not sure if it is a coincidence, but the 12x speed increase for me happened at about the 2.2 gig range and it appears that both of your 12x burns have a slight increase at that point also. The jump is nominal and both burns look very nice. I am thinking for the DVD backing up that I am doing 12x appears to be safe. Going to run a back up right now at 12x and post the results tomorrow. Thanks for running your tests, another persons insight is always welcome. :clap:

Here is that back up at 12x with TY02 scanned on my litey. The PIE spike early in the scan is humorous, obviously a disk flaw, but outside of that it looks pretty good.

It is no surprise that 12X burns have more errors than 8X burns. It is, after all, 8X media. I have found a few drive/media combinations where 8X vs 12X have very little difference but only with 16X media.

but the difference is so small it is impressive. Would you agree that getting a QS of 93 when I normally get 95s on average at 8x is a testimate to the media and burner?

Both but mainly TY media imo

Another backup burned at 12x on 8x TY02 with very nice results…

Sadly not a full disk, I would have liked to see if these great results would have continued to the edge.

Very nice. That would be acceptable even for an 8x burn.

I have no idea on what quality rubric the quality score is based. I have read what the author said about the effort he used to get a meaningful score, however I have watched an LG burn move from 5 total PIF to 7 and the score dropped from 95 to 93. I pay no attention to the score, I look at the graph and the raw data.

Taking into acount what you said here, I took a bit of time and looked over my records of 8x and some of these newer 12x burns on TY02 media and I have to tell you. The more testing I do the more impressed I am with this media and burner. The differences in the graphs and raw data are so minimal they could easily be attributed to variance in the “top end” quality of the media itself. Thanks for the advice, I will pay more attention to what you mentioned and less to the quality score in the future. It paints a more clear picture of the results.

Glad to help. Keep in mind, if you aren’t careful it is easy to get obsessed with variations in the graphs that even I will admit, have little to do with playability. I am very critical of burn quality; it is not necessary to be as critical as I am to enjoy what we do.

All you have to do to get some perspective is to browse through some of the old scans for drives such as the NEC 2500 and you will see some rather bad burns (by today’s standards) that people are truly proud of.

I have to disagree, as my 2500 performs very well, by ‘quality scan’ PI/PIF standards included. It’s actually still my best burner of some media.

I never said that 2500s were bad burners. But if you look at older media of dubious quality, such as some of the 4X and older 8X stuff you will see what I mean. I simply mentioned the 2500 as it was one of the earliest burners I can remember that would turn out better burns with poor media.

That is another feature of the Pioneer 111D@111L that has impressed me. I am not sure of the quaility of the AML 002, circuit city stuff, but the 111L seems to burn on them extremely well also.

AML002 is actually decent media, all of my burners burn them well and haven’t had any stability problems for 18 months+ for my earlier burns.

Anyway back to the original subject, some 8x media can burn quite well at 12x, but I usually prefer quality over burn speed and I’ll burn even most 8x media at 8x rather than 12x for this reason. That’s not to say that I won’t burn at 12x if I’m in a rush and obviously you can get some excellent results at 12x and beyond, I just tend to get best results with most 8x media at 6-8x, usually 8x for 16x media.

Thanks for the info on the AML002. I have about 150 of those and about 150 TY02s left now. It does not surprise me that you say they are decent quality considering the burns I have been getting on them and knowing they have durability is a comfortable feeling too.

Hmmm… 8x TY02s at 6x. Now you have me wondering what would happen there. I am going to have to do some of my back ups at 6x just to see.

Time is almost never an issue for me, I just like to know the capabilities of my toys and push their limits to see what they can do. I guess you can not truly fine tune anything without experimentation at the edges of performance. :wink:

When you say TY02 do you mean TYG02 or YUDEN 000T02?