PIE & PIF..does it really matter?

Don’t alot of burnt dvd’s that would scan with a high pie or pif value still work just fine in set top players?

They may play today on a particular player, but errors increase over time and the player may change to one that is not as good at reading. Lower errors today mean increased likelihood of playback tomorrow.

ahh…so basically a higher error rate on 1st burn simply means that the read life of the disc will be shorter and thereby shoot for the low error’s. So while it may still read fine…the odds are against you that down the road the disc will still be playable. Thanks for clearing that up…I was under the impression the a disc would retain the same error rate from the initial burn until either you melt or crack it.

The matter is well explained in many CDFreaks reviews and sticky threads. Lower numbers mean longer lifetimes and better compatibility and faster and smoother reading. The difference between total 5 PIF’s and 10 PIF’s may be extremely small in real-life situtions but it may become easily noticeable between 100 PIF’s and 100,000 PIF’s. Some scan results show just 3-5 total PIF’s while some others show literally over 100,000 PIF’s.

PIEs are less of an issue than PIFs. All discs with relatively large portions with high PIFs cause problems in sections on various standalone DVD players that I’ve tried - but the threshold may vary a bit. However all of these discs could read with no errors at all on PC DVD drives!

Agreed, thankfully. Most of these bad burns I have discovered from the “old” days have been easily ripped and saved to another disc. Even the worst degradation I ever had, on a batch of Ritek G04s that went from PIEs in the 100s to PIEs in the 1400s in the space of a year, was readable.

ahg! no wonder it seems to be a good idea to rescan things around 6 mos. to a year. :eek:

Especially Ritek. See what it did:

@chase0039. I have about 50 RitekG05 burns that are like the one you posted and I am re burning them all on TY02 hoping that they will last a lot longer than 6 months to a year. Just started to have trouble with them in my stand alone player then decided to scan one or two and they were horrible.:Z

That was a g04, right? I got rid of those few NewEgg sent me for free. These are all g05s from Meritline, plus I have some Maxell DVD-R 8x MIT that come up ritekg05. Should I be equally concerned about my g05s? I read about deterioration of the g04, and something about the mixed quality of the g05s, in terms of spindles (but not degradation, I don’t recall reading)… It’s odd how the beta/jitter on these g05s are so good burned on my px-716a, whereas the beta/jitter from my Fuji y000-t02-00s is not as good. Could you look at these and tell me what you think, Chas? :confused:


man, this is making me nervous. I wonder why the Riteks seem to do that. By the way, CrossG, do you remember where you got them from? Is the burn quality any better if they are used for data disks? Yeesh…I still have probably 65 of them that are Ritek Ridata and Maxell ritek. Is it just best to throw them away? They were around .36-.45 cents/ea… that would be an awful thing to have to do, but I’d like your input and Chas’s as well. :eek:

Chas and CrossG, has Ritek always done that? I’m wondering…plus, I guess you’re both saying that although you both kept them stored in a climate controlled area that they still went bad in spite of that?

The problem with Ritek G04s was very wide-spread and received a lot of press in the forums about a year ago. One poster a few months ago feels that the problem is that the labels are warping and mine are labeled. I found virtually all my G04s were nearly as bad. So far there is no information like this connected to G05s. The good part is that TYs were $1.35 then and .30 now so the cost of recovering the burns is actually less than if we burned them on TY a year ago… Also, even the worst G04 is readable on my NECs. The problem is real though, they all break up on a normal player. Good old error correction.

I would be worried about the one with the large block of spikes up around 200. Just keep an eye on it. Normally, errors increase over time but it is supposed to be over a looooong time not a few months.

Thank you, Chas–that puts my mind at ease! (Or should it??? :p) I had read that about the ritek g04 quality hitting bottom at www.dvd-recordable.org, and either there or someplace else said the ridata branded or silver shiny were the only two to get, because they weren’t labeled like the silver matte (that one was anathema).

By the way, have you ever tried or burned the Sony DVD+R 8x MIJ that are y000t02-00 that Circuit City sells? I got a 50pk of those when they had them on sale, but had read something mixed about them. If you’ve used them, let me know something about your results, if that’s not too much trouble. :iagree:

Nope, sorry, never tried them. You might do some digging through the media scan section and see who has and PM them. Are they Made in Japan? If so they should be good.

thanks for checking out that burst scan, Chas. :slight_smile: I just started using those, because I accidentally tried the Burst test and found the POE spikes matched the sum 1 spikes (above 1) at certain points, although I couldn’t explain why (I pick things up, but certain technical aspects take me a lot of time to absorb).

If I had a better job, I could afford to chuck those riteks or maybe even burn them (literally) and just go TY crazy and reburn them all and then no worries after the initial scans. :rolleyes:

Yes, made in Japan, although when I looked through Media scan section and tried to search, I only found sparse comments on them. I had even asked people (Dr.Pino I think) about the ‘frosting’ on their tops. They come out as a y000-t02-00, 1158 batch, but curiously, the Media Quality check only says they’re ok at 8x on my px-716a, whereas all my Fujis of the same mid (but 1133 batch) will all check out as good at 12x. :stuck_out_tongue: I scratch my head a lot on that one, although Dr. Pino did say he had the same thing happen with his Sony tys, so at least I’m not the only one that it happened to.

Hm… Quema and chas, I don’t think there exist any standard saying about POF levels, I might be wrong tho. I wouldn’t worry about your scan Quema, they are all within standards and the jitter is good too. If you want a “complete” analysis, you need to post a transfer rate test. If the transfer test graph is smooth, your burn is fine.

Mine are OEM RitekG05 in the Red with White Ridata printing on the wrap. I have both the Printable and unbranded shiny finish, both are giving me trouble in my stand alone and the scans are now very bad. So either I have a couple of bad batches or G05 is headed in the same direction as G04. They played OK before but not anymore, lots of glitches and pixelating while watching the movie sometimes they just get to a certain chapter and freeze. That said I also have a lot of G04 burns that I haven’t checked and I don’t think I want to.:eek: