PI errors...does the total PIE matter?

as in the title, does the total PIE matter/affect the playablility/quality of recorded data? i kno that the max should not exceed 280, but does the total matter? also, max PIF should not exceed 4, but does the total PIF matter? Thanks in advance. :slight_smile:

Some people use the total errors as kind of a measuring stick of how well the the disk burned overall (especially when people are comparing insanly good burns and both graphs are so good that it is difficult/imposible to tell which is beter). Total errors do not have a direct impact on playability though. you can have a disk with low total errors but with a bad spike in errors in one spot, and the disk has a good chance of messing up when that bad spot is trying to be read. You can have kind of high total errors but if the max doesn’t go that high, it most liklly is going to play just fine.

About the 280/4 limits. Those are the book standards but not all drives can scan acording to the book standards. Some drives scan at ecc 8/8 so the limits would be 280/32. Some drives scan at ecc 8/1 so the limits would be 280/4. Some even scan at other ecc rates but those two are the most common. In therory, 280 is the pie limit but in general, a good burn will be substantially below that. if it is spiking up to 200, its a kind of iffy burn that should play fine but might have problems on some drives/players. It is perfectlly reasonable to keep them below 50 once you find good firmware and media for your drive. I keep almost all of mine below 20 (on many, the pie are all even below 10). Pif can be a little harder to keep low (especialy if you have an ecc8/1 drive where the limits are 280/4). While I have had disks that didn’t go over 1, I wouldn’t be upset if it had some spikes going up to 3 or maybe even 4. If there are areas that climb up to 3 or 4 (not just small single spikes here and there) I might get concerned.

You shouldn’t worry about single high pif spikes, as long as they aren’t larger areas in the scan with higher spikes, that’s ok. But also it depends on a drive or a player, i’ve seen media with pie over 280 and are workin still fine.

I like to keep my errors nice and low but rapid fire is right, single spikes can sometimes be ignored and can even be cause by the drive that is scanning rather than an actual error on the disk. Usally if I get a single spike that is high or very high, I will run a transfer rate test to see if it has read problems at that point. As far as pie, its kind of subjective. The book standard says something along the lines of the average player should be able to play a disk with pie under 280. I would think that means that a good reader could read a disk with errors over 280 while a poor reader might not be able to read a disk with pie up to 280. As far as what is aceptable and readable, again it is subjective. The best test is to play it and see if it plays (if you have multiple players, maybe try it on them all if it is suspect). It is also subjective as opinions on what is aceptable error levels very quite a bit. Personally, I think that it is easy enough to get disks that scan with low errors, why not keep them as low as possible. It takes a little learning and practice though, so don’t be upset if you get higher error rates to start out with. If they play then they play. In the long run, disks with low errors will liklly seve you beter (especially with important data) so why not work towards acheiving very good burns?

Me too! :wink:

wow…thanks a lot for the replies :smiley:

One thing I forgot to mention. Media deteroriates (even the good stuff deteriorates a little) and scratches (even fine, nearlly invisible ones) make the disk harder to read. That disk may be readable now, but will it be in six months or a year? That is another reason to try to keep errors resonably lower than book standards. If a disk plays fine but is marginal error wise, is it going to be playable when errors increase due to deteroration and or scratches?