Over a million PI errors, but 95% quality =?

First of all, I have been burning DVDs for probably a year using my BENQ 1620 running B7T9 ever since the day I’ve bought it.

I have never really bothered with verifying the discs when burning with Nero since I do a manual scan myself, that means opening the files and seeing if everything can be read correctly. Although, I do let DVD Decrypter verify the discs.

I only have these type of discs: Ritek G05 and F1, CMC MAG AE1 and AM3, and TTH02.

According to many sites I’ve seen, the TTH02 from TDK I have could be considered first rate. While the Ritek are second rate and CMC are probably 4th rate at best.

Anyway, I’ve recently become paranoid about the quality of the discs I am burning. So, I’ve downloaded Nero CD-DVD Speed and started doing random scans of the discs I have.

As far as I understand it, a [i]maximum[/i] of 280 PI errors can be considered “good.” Now, I have done numerous scans between all the discs I have and they randomly score anywhere from 92 to 97.

However, the PIE/PIF and jitter values fluctuate wildly. “Guesstimating” things, I could say that the [i]maximum[/i] PIE run between a few hundred and 1000, with a [i]total[/i] anywhere from 100,000 to 500,000.

The [i]maximum[/i] PIF are relatively low, mostly under 15. And a [i]total[/i] of a few hundreds.

Jitter seems always around an average of 10% and a maximum of 12%.

As I have said, even though the PIE/PIF and jitter numbers change, the quality scores are always over 90.

Now, my question is, how much should I worry about the insanely huge PIE values? Because obviously, the quality score is great, the disc plays great. What gives?

Here is an example of one of the scans:

As you can see, it has 1,000,000 PIEs and numberous PIF spikes.

It’s pretty messed up when compared to something like this:

From what I have seen in many threads, it is NOT uncommon for people to have PIEs under 20 at the maximum and a total under 50,000. I’ve also seen near perfect PIF numbers, both maximum and total easily under 5.

Would upgrading my firmware to B7V9 or even B7W9 help lower the PIEs?

Quality scores take into account INDIVIDUAL maximum PI/PIFs, as long as individual PIs do not exceed 280 or max individual PIF 4 you are ok. Normally a quality media should give you a total PI count below 100,000 and much much lower for media like taiyo yuden.

It also says that compairing the results from different drives is not going to give anything in the thread in the media forum on this matter. There are also no PIF scans in the second ones and as I have been so kindly informed scan results realy can’t give any info without PIF.

PIF should not exeed 16 when scanning on a BenQ not 4.

PIF Max is what gives you your quality score as it has the most impact on the quality and playability of your discs.

RITEK G05 is also incredebly bad media that you should avoid at all costs, your Ritek R03 and Yuden t02 media are far higher quality, this is why you dont have as many PIE’s reported. Remember all media is different, you wont get really great PIE and PIF numbers on crappy media.

Your Sony drive does not report PIF’s so that is why the quality looks much better. If you scanned the discs in the BenQ the PIF’s would show the true quality of the disc.

I noticed that you are clicking the floppy disk icon when saving your scans. This is the correct way to save them but save them as a PNG not a Jpg (Jpeg) as the quality of a PNG is much higher, also the size will be smaller. Your images are very blurry. Upload them to cdfreaks using the ‘Manage attatchments’ button when you post.

You dont have to worry about the PIE values as much as the PIF values. The maximum should not go over 280 according to most, but i have discs with low PIF Max but PIE Max over 600 that still play alright.

Not only that but you have the 1620 scanning at 8x and the Sony DRU 810 at maximum speed. Two different drives with two different settings. It is not really that fair a comparison. If possible scan using only the 1620.

Sony DRU-810A is not supported in Nero CD-DVD Speed so it does not measure PIF - the reason for 100 score.

I am aware about the maximums here but I believe we were talking about the TOTALS To me, as long as individual maximums are within specs there should be no problems regardless of the TOTAL count throughout the disc, but there again, I would personally avoid media that has a high TOTAL despite having a good MAX, as I feel this sort of media would get worse in time.

Yes the dreaded RITEK, I avoid like the plague now. I am sold strictly on Taiyo Yuden now, no more RITEK CRAP for me. I even stopped using Maxell.

While this is theoritically correct, like many theoretical answers, it doesn’t always work that well in practice. The problem is that different players will read the disc differently. And a disc with a lot of errors (even below the theoritical maximum values, as read back on the burner) may read back significantly worse on other players. So unless you’re only planning on reading the disc back on the burner that it was originally written on (perhaps a dangerous assumption since that burner will most likely eventually die or be replaced) then you can’t directly judge a disc by the numbers.

Then again, if you’re lucky, the disc may read back better on other players. There’s really no way to tell, other than to try it.

Even a disc with minimal errors may not read back well on another player since some discs have lower reflectivity than others, and this can cause problems on its own.

About the only thing you can do is to buy discs that keep the error rate as low as possible - and then hope for the best. At least most BenQ drives allow you to view these errors so you can at least rule out discs that have high error rates.

Which is why I use Taiyo Yuden discs and they are read fine by the most fussy of the players :slight_smile:

YEP! :iagree: You can’t argue with success!

Probably (I would go with B7W9). But as others have pointed out, you should also try some better media.
Taiyo Yuden is good and so is MCC 003 (8x) or
MCC 004 (16x) sold under the Verbatim brand, among others.

WoW, that disc looks worse than mine TTH02 from Costco, and my CMC Mag AE01 from Staples, which are equally low quality. 3000 PIF is kinda high and PI exceeds 280. How does the disc interm of play back?? Any players refuses to play???