Open Letter comments

vbimport

#1

I meant to start this thread at the same time, but I got called away.

Please read it carefully as it is fairly severe in its proclamations of intent. For example, if you like helping people here with Plextools (as I have done), well, signing it means you won’t be doing that until the dispute is over.

I actually fibbed a bit in the letter: no matter what happens, I won’t be recommending either the “free” or XL version of their software. Ever.


#2

The sad fact is that I doubt Plextor will take much notice, big companies rarely do.

Ben :slight_smile:


#3

Agree with you Ben, but if nothing is done they are sure not to notice.:slight_smile:


#4

I also agree (wow, one of the CDFreaks “lounge lizards” noticed!) that that company is unlikely to back down. However, I’m a “Shylock” and every pound of flesh I can extract is a victory of sorts.

We CDFreakers tend to be a “local resource” among our own circle of non-techie associates, and our (small) actions are definitely costing them, and will continue to cost them in a cascading way. Plextor’s brand-appeal is to people just like us - discriminating ODD burner consumers who go out of their way to go beyond OEM/bundled products - and while our own purchasing decisions don’t add up to very much, I feel the reverberations just might be significant.

I was never going to be a 716a purchaser, but since Saturday I’ve deflected two purchase decisions, and on Monday morning I’ll be bringing up “Plextor support” (emphasis on licensing costs) at a meeting and the numbers will be in the hundreds. I was neutral prior to last Friday, but Plextor’s decision to let their weasel-lawyers do all the talking forced my hand.


#5

Splendid idea , my friend ! No help from this “local resource” .

And maybe we should try some more Opensource ?

Let’s punk them with humour too …


#6

Although i dont own a Plextor i added my support because i believe that anything whether it be firmware or software that improves performance or enjoyment with burning needs to be encouraged…
And also who knows when i might see the need to add a plextor to my drives that i already have…


#7

First of all, Plextor is a very small brand. Even Plextor’s mother company Shinano Kenshi is smaller than CMC or Ritek or Lite-On IT. LG, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, NEC and other real big ones don’t take much notice of CMC and Ritek.

Then, this “Plextor PlexTools vs. PxLinux/PxScan” thing has already gone too far for Plextor to ignore.

Who knows? Perhaps some people at Plextor are going to lose jobs after some weeks.


#8

It would just be nice for those who had such awful RMA troubles and other problems with their Plextors to get as much relief as possible from the company. When they screw up, they should pay for all of it, and not try to hamstring the user that bought the product in good faith. Besides, it’s odd how Plextor techs will ‘steer’ people here to CDfreaks.com. Out of 3 different techs I’ve spoken to, 2 of them told me to check out this site. I know the Plextor US techs know of this site, so perhaps Plextor US does too.

By the way, that ‘open letter’ to Plextor was well written. I hope they do take notice, because I could not have been that ‘diplomatic’ if I would have had such huge troubles. :rolleyes:


#9

I guess Plextor will be more scared of the bad publicity than a few customers lost from CDFreaks, so really this needs as much hype as it can get. What I really dont get is why they had a problem with the software, maybe if they had there own Linux software, and this was just ripping it off then it may be different, but (as far as we know) they had no plans for there own linux software.

If they dont back down, its gonna be hard for me never to buy Plextor again, as they do make great drives (I havnt tried the 716 however).

Ben, CDFreaks Lounge Lizard


#10

Don’t forget author & maintainer of several invaluable guides :bow:


#11

I completely agree with the open letter behalf the part of not helping people here. I think, in this manner we punish at first Plextor users and not the company. It would be better, to add every time in the response the information about Plextors bad behaviour. So, also new users get knowledge about the story. Concerning the Plextools XL, I will never buy this software. Plextor drives are still overpriced and we accepted it until now, because the drives are (has been :confused: ) of good quality and the are delivered with a good tool. For me, the developing of Plextools Pro continues in the Plextools XL, which should remain free for Plextor users. And of course they should support or at least not constrain open source. That’s my vision of a good support for a “king of quality”. :iagree:
(Bought until now 5 Plextor drives and maybe this was the last one) :a


#12

It’s hard for me to support the measure
1st, most of my emails have been answered and promptly, most of them
2nd, I just called for my first RMA last week on my 712SA not because of bad scan’s but because the bios would not recognize it, now here’s the funny part I got a new motherboard same chipset but different brand and the 712SA is now recognized in the bios, they still said I could send it in when I let them know about this.
3rd PxScan just does not work for me at all, not even the new version, new motherboard same problem’s and yes i’ve followed the readme to the letter, it just doesn’t work. I have 3 Plextor’s the Premium, 712SA and 716SA all of them are seen in the bios all of them are seen by windows, plextools, Roxio, Nero, CloneDVD, CloneCD, i’m sure you get the picture, PXScan just won’t stay open period.
Right now Plextools is all I have and the tests work fine from there.


#13

The last 10 people who said they’d read the manual didn’t use Nero ASPI or, even worse, launched pxscan.exe via double-click…


#14

Anyway, this is not a fight about what does or does not work. It is a fight for freedom of expression, for the right to code, to produce software and especially against baseless legal threatenings.

On the hydrogenaudio forum, some people have contacted the support at Plextor USA, about that story (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=34336). Part of the answer is :
“The bottom line is that Plextor does not support Linux. Nor is Plextor
obliged to support Linux in any way, shape or form.
As a Linux user, you should be aware that device driver support and
software support for the OS is sketchy at best. We all live with it, we
all deal with it, we all get by.”

Fair enough, but the problem is not about Linux support. I never asked them anything, or begged them to support Linux. There is a difference between not supporting an OS and threatening or preventing others because they want to do so.
Moreover it is not only an OS issue. Alexander’s PxScan/PxView works under Windows, but despite their claim it is still entirely legal. There are loads of software that do exactly the same task, this is normal.
The whole issue here is beyond the scope of simply supporting this or that OS, or if Plextools is better or worse than PxScan.


#15

Thats right! They just don’t know what to say now.


#16

It is true that Plextor is behaving downright strange & unethical ,
but are we behaving correct in this situation ??? :confused:

After all I think jojoM has a valid commonsense point ,
we may have been too hasty in taken countermoves ??? :sad:

Should we stay civilized as jojoM proposes ,
help old/new users and inform them ?

:cool:


#17

I think my worry with the letter is that it could go either way, it could have the desired effect, and let the plextor linux tools continue, or they could start to see CDFreaks as the enemy, and want to “defeat” us even more, doing as much as they can to stop the linux tools.

Has Plextor themselves actually commented yet, I thought up untill now it was there lawyers, it could be they dont really understand what the tool is.

Ben :slight_smile:


#18

There is and was no intention to stop helping people here, but to avoid defaulting to always using certain software to accomplish everyday tasks with this brand of CD & DVD burner.

To show I’m being honest here, I should point out there’s a few examples where there is no substitute: FE/TE scanning, GigaRec (not sure if Yamaha software can do this), and SecuRec. If something comes up with those aspects, I’ll offer whatever help I can to someone who has problems, and I encourage others to do the same.

But pretty much everything else can go in another direction.


#19

That’s why I took pains to separate this website from the individuals here in the opening paragraph. I think it’s in everyone’s best interests - including Plextor’s - to have CDFreaks.com & the moderators etc remain neutral. Liggy said as much in another thread and I couldn’t agree more. Our “coalition” is informal, and as such, there’s no one specifically to “target”.


#20

Both of mine were not answered. The second one I can understand (it was just informative), but in the first one I was having bad scan results and wasn’t sure (in those days) if it was the drive or the media. My request for further information on interpretation or what to do next went unanswered.

3rd PxScan just does not work for me at all, not even the new version, new motherboard same problem’s and yes i’ve followed the readme to the letter, it just doesn’t work. I have 3 Plextor’s the Premium, 712SA and 716SA all of them are seen in the bios all of them are seen by windows, plextools, Roxio, Nero, CloneDVD, CloneCD, i’m sure you get the picture, PXScan just won’t stay open period.

I saw this in another thread and I remember it because the same thing happened to me. I solved it by putting the DOS “pause” command in the batch file:

pxscan pie pif speed=2 destfile=output.pxd
pause

Because the PAUSE kept the window open, I was able to see why it was closing so fast: An error message saying “no media inserted”.

:o

Please try that and let us know.

@Alex: Maybe you should add PAUSE to the end of your example batch files; an error message isn’t much use if you never see it!