Official Alcohol Forum

Just a short message to let you all know what happens when you express your unhappiness about update support in the Official Alcohol Forum. If you do, it they want to kick you off the forum. I posted such a message, and got a personal message from Tron that I want to share with all of you.

FROM TRON… you all should know him from this forum also…

You are barking up the wrong tree. The DEV team works on these updates as fast as they can. Complaining is going to get you no place. If you continue to make useless noise on the forum I will have no choice but to suspend your account here. If you feel you need to complain farther feel free to complain to my boss (Phoenix), I am going to cc a copy of this to him so he will know who you are. My job is to keep the forum clean and on topic. I plan to do it. Your posts do nothing but anger people and you are going to end up getting flamed by our users. I would rather keep it constructive and on topic. This is a warning. The next step is to lock your account.

They have a problem with unsatified customers expressing their views in a way that may lose customers for them. Even though what is being posted is true.

If you make waves…you get blacklisted by Alcohol …Now they really have a blacklist problem.

could you please also quote your(!) post in that forum?

so we could better judge about this… :wink:

i can now…since they reopened the post to post their answer. They tend to just erase topics they dont like there. My post read like this:

Quote from Tron

I am going to lock this topic. It is way off topic. BTW we take constructive criticism just fine, we just have a low tolerance for stupidity…

Apparently, anyone who lets you guys know he is unsatisfied with the length of time it takes to get updates, is stupid now. This is a real way to keep customers. Or is it, just anyone that says loudly that he is mad a bout the lack of good update support is stupid? Are we not allowed to be unsatisfied, mad and let you and any viewers who might be deciding on wheather or not to buy this product based on good update support, that it just aint happening, and we aint happy about it?

How should I write it, so that you wont accuse me of being childish, stupid, or an idiot? How is one constructive about making a complaint? What is wrong with informing others who might not have bought the product yet, that the update support isnt up to par?

If you dont want to put updates out more often, to keep people from complaining if they arent 100 percent, why arent you interested in satisfying us users who arent satisfied with the lack of more blacklist updates?. Do we not count anymore after we purchase the product? It sure makes us feel like second class citizens in a market where the customer is supposed to be king. And then to call us stupid and threaten to boot us off the forum for expressing our oppinion in a way that rubs you the wrong way, is really grown up.

The old saying that the rusty gate gets the oil wasnt thought up by me. It just happens to be very true, and thus I’ll squeek until I see results. The more you call me childish, or stupid, the more I know that I am getting under your skin, and thus accomplishing the goal of making you react. And you prove with your answers that the service isnt up to snuff. Especially when the only answer you can give, is the updates will come when they come, and not sooner. That really proves my point better than I could myself.

Please keep up the good work Alcohol Team and Mods.
end of post.

They seem to think its ok to call someone stupid for not aggreeing with their policies. I dont like not being agreed with either…but i dont call the other person stupid for having an opinion.

BTW…if anyone wants to see the answer from phoenix…its on the Official Forum site. If i speak my mind there again…im gone. Dont like the message…kill the messenger!

Complaining about it here won’t score you any points either.

With that said, I agree with your concerns about the recent lack of updates. I’m also frustrated with the lack of information about future updates. Frankly, I don’t buy the “competors might steal our ideas” line. If alcohol team were to add something that would defeat the latest safedisc or tages (I’m not really holding my breath about SF3), saying something along the lines of “expect some improvements in sd3.15 copying” will not give away ANY technical information that alc’s competitors will need in order to implement the same feature. On the other hand, mentioning useless features like “xp theme changing” might give ideas to others. I could understand if they just said “we don’t give out any info because we don’t want to end up with broken promises when something doesn’t work out.” Why beat around the bush?

Finally, I don’t get why the devs are stressing so much about being 120% bug-free :). Almost anyone who is using software like Alcohol or bw is computer literate well above the average morons who can barely turn the computer on and click the start button. Almost all of us are used to dealing with software bugs. Windows is the prime example here. Let’s just say that some bugs are worse than others. No one here wants alcohol to cause occasional BSODs, but few will complain if alcohol doesn’t play nice with usb burners under win95 (does anyone even use that garbage anymore except as a backup for imcompatible software?), or if some ring protech games don’t always work under v-drives.

I think Alcohol team need to always remember that Alcohol is a specialy software (as opposed to something like NERO or cd creator) used for reading (to be used with the virtual drive) and copying discs that typically contain media-based copy protection because of its extremely robust reading and writing algorithms, and for burning cd images, since alcohol contains support for many image formats out there. It doesn’t matter if Alcohol doesn’t have everything except the kitchen sink as long as the core functionality is working great.

very nicely put. I wasnt after scoring points though. I posted a view that wasnt meant for the Alcohol team. It was meant for the wouldbe customers. They have a right to know, just what the update policy is and what that really means. Thats what made the Mods mad. Even if a few supporters ragged on me for it, I bet most of the viewers supported my position or were at least influenced by it one way or the other.

We all know that the only way to get something changed is through the pocketbook, and this is done through getting information out. Thats what forums are about. Word of mouth is still the best form of advertising.

Gee i give up sometimes,

@Razor1982

could you please also quote your(!) post in that forum?

It was an accumulation of posts that resorted in a moderator giving the warning.

1,

BAD NEWS GUYS. I hear that if you wanna beta test Alcohol, you gotta still be usin Windows 98(SE). (At least thats where the meat of the last update went into.) No wonder it took so long to test. The two people in the world still using Windows 98 only had time on weekends. (or so I heard).

2,

Some of you guys are in luck then. I heard they put DMP for DVD off to work on USB DVD Burner support for Windows 95! I am sure everyone has been waiting on that. Woooopppeeeeeeee!

3,

I guess everyone wants to be a beta tester so they dont have to wait so long to be disappointed.

4,

Cool! If they are working on the Blacklist problem right now…That means we can expect an update…now lets see, hmmm, and with the betatest time…hmmmmm… oh, yea…we can expect an update right before Christmas. Merry Christmas all! And a Blacklist free New Year!

@kid185

BTW…if anyone wants to see the answer from phoenix…its on the Official Forum site. If i speak my mind there again…im gone. Dont like the message…kill the messenger!

I actualy said.

Hello XXXX, (real name removed)

I have read your posts on the support forum and I have read the replies that you have received from other members, I think that you should have taken what they were saying as some form of guide line as to how they felt concerning your posts, my moderators act not only on rules laid down that they must follow but also on complaints they receive from other members, any action a moderator has taken is supported 100 % by myself as Admin of the support forum.

Your posts are very derogatory of our software, and we do have a right to delete posts and close topics that we feel are against the equilibrium of the support forum, this is our right as owners of the support forum.

Similarly as Developers of the software that you purchased we do state free updates, however we do not state that we will release an update a month or even every two months, or even an update a year, so constant complaining as to why no update has been released will fall on deaf ears, constructive posts or questions however will be responded to in the same manner as they were received, however we do reserve the right not to answer a question if we feel it is not required for us to do so.

I have taken the option of posting this mail that I have sent to you.

Concerning your threats to return and raise hell, while I am sure that you can log in with other names and email address however should you do this we do have options at our disposal to ensure that you would only be able to get away with it once or maybe twice. I would suggest that you think about that before making any other posts that might be construed as a reason for us to exercise our rights and ban you from the support forum.

While I disliked the threatening nature of your email, I am sure that you wrote it before you had the chance to sit down and think about why you had received a warning PM from one of the forum moderators, I am sure that you have since had time to reflect on this, so I will not take any action to ban you from the support forum at this time.

However you can rest assured that should you make any further threats regardless of the reason you will leave me with no alternative other than to do so.

I look forward to seeing you around the forums and offering you any help or information that I can as I am sure other members of the support forum would be glad to do as well.

so now the record is straight, why is it these days ppl seem to stick to their side of a story and not the whole facts, i think Cdfreaks forum is starting to become dumping ground for everyones wowes, let it get back to what its here for, offering help and advice to its members and not a sounding off board.

BAD NEWS GUYS. I hear that if you wanna beta test Alcohol, you gotta still be usin Windows 98(SE). (At least thats where the meat of the last update went into.) No wonder it took so long to test. The two people in the world still using Windows 98 only had time on weekends. (or so I heard).

if this is true, it makes a SAD panda.

Check out the changes list in the last update of Alcohol. I wasnt the only one that blasted them. Most everyone noticed practically no improvements for Windows XP users, other than ability to change screen color. That is fact that not even Phoenix can dispute. The change log speaks for itself. This brought about a series of posts, (not just from myself), razzing them about all the work they put into fixes for Windows98.

Just to be fair, readers should maybe do a search for posts made by myself in the Official Alcohol forum, as well as here in this forum, and read all of the posts, not just the excerpts that Phoenix posted. Then at least you have the whole context, and not just “HIS” onesided view.

Phoenix would like all to believe that I was the only one who complained about the lack usable update in the last release of Alcohol. I may have been the loudest, but was neither the first or the only one to post about it. Or maybe everyone that complained, got threatened. This could also be the case. If so, then I guess I must apologize to Phoenix.

@ Phoenix…

I told everyone where they could read what you posted, as not to mislead anyone. Did you fail to notice that? At any rate, it was nice that you posted it in its entirety here. Saves everyone the trouble to visit the Alcohol website. Your statement that you support what Tron wrote…(see first quote in this post) is saying he was speaking for you. Thus, my statement that you will boot me if i speak my mind again. Give us a little credit to put two and two together please. I was born at night, but not last night!

As far as I know, this site here is a discussion forum. Things are discussed here. All kinds of things relating to Copying CDs with various softwares. There is nowhere in the rules that says only problems and solutions should be posted. (Not to mention that the update policy in force by Alcohol Soft is a problem for many of us that we would like a solution for, but aint getting).

If this isnt the place to discuss How good or bad we think a software is, then where should we in your opinion go? (besides to hell that is, lol)

Some things you say are surely true, BUT I think you stated your opinion in a non productive way. I have read all accessable posts and your email to the support forum…you should think about the way you express yourself.

Anyway, I can’t see any sense in “carrying the war” over to this forum.

P.S. I am only refering to your posts at the alcohol forum. This has nothing to do with the help you are offering here!!

Actually, the “war” started here, (and I didnt even start it). I just posted my two cents worth to a thread started by someone else at the time. I moved the war to the Official Site, because I thought it really belonged there. Being nice and unoffensive got nowhere at all. Being unproductive got much better response from the Alcohol team, as they played right along and showed how unprofessional they can be.

As a customer, I have no requirement to be tolerant, nice, or withholding in my expressions (although some think it is the better way to go). As the representative of a company, I would have the responsibilty to try to solve any complaints my customers have, reguardless of how they are expressed. At least thats the way it is here in the company I work for. I would get fired for telling one of our customers that his complaint was stupid, or that he was stupid for the way he presented it. Is that not so where you guys work?

So why should I put up with my complaints being put down by the reprentatives, (and even employees of Alcohol Soft). Actually, I thought the email to Alcohol Soft would be much less offensive, than to write it in the forum for all to see. But what did they do? Phoenix posted it in the forum. As if to say…hey everybody…look at this jerk? If I had know he was going to post it anyway, I would have written it in the thread myself. You guys can make up your own minds what happens if you write anything negative to Alcohol Soft as an email. Maybe your email will be the next one in the forum.

When I have to install other software (DT) in order to get the blacklist update for Alcohol, then why cant we get it from Alcohol Soft themselves and save us from having to run two sets of software to get the one to work properly? Especially when the writer of DT is involved with Alcohol Soft.

This is where this started, and Its probably a good place to end it.

Well I agree with kid185.

So you can buy Alcohol120% and while new protections/blacklists are raised every week, we have a useless product … nice!!

At the end, it all comes back to Alcohol120%, they will loose customers (new and old)!!

Customers want a product that works with/against todays protections/blacklists … and that’s just the thing Alcohol120% doens’t deliver!!

I hope for Alcohol120% that they will soon release a new version/upgrade that’s usefull for the customers, if not we all know what will happen.