Not happy with TTH01 TDK discs, I'm surprised

SantaKlaus 2006-05-21 12:59:41 UTC #1

I heard great things about these TDK Scratchproof 8X -R, TTH01, so I bought some at SVP.

Well, I'm not convinced in the least by these discs. I know that the gurus here say that the PIF counts don't really matter, but 10'000+ :eek: is kinda.... :Z
I get much better PIE/PIF figures from any cheap CMC disc burnt in my 1650! :a
I have nothing against TDK: with TDK003 and TTG02 I get fantastic burns.
I first thought that it was my 1650 that didn't have the right strategy for these discs, but SolidBurn ON didn't improve things, at least not significantly.

Reports and scans:
8X SolidBurn OFF
8X SolidBurn ON

Do I have a bad batch? I hope they're stable, at least... :sad:

DrageMester 2006-05-21 13:16:52 UTC #2

I have some TDK ScratchProof 8x media in both the +R and -R versions.
None of them give impressive PIE/PIF scans - especially the +R is disappointing in this way. It doesn't depend much on the drive used for burning them, with the exception that my NEC drives are a little worse.

I have no problems with playing these discs however, they have flawless Read Transfer tests in all drives, and they resist scratching far better than any other disc I have tried.

I can't be bothered to do a full post in the Blank Media Tests forum right now, but here are typical scans of one of each of these media:

scoobiedoobie 2006-05-21 13:27:22 UTC #3

My use of TDK-coded media is limited, but I have not been impressed by the 8x -R TDKs I've used, the 4x were better although errors tended to rise towards the edge with both media codes. Francksoy used to praise them quite a bit but later changed his tune and was not as happy with using them for longterm storage. I think he has some doubts to their stability, but I don't know if he has actually had any problems. (This is my recollection of what he said, I may not be entirely accurate)

Personally, I am more concerned with media that burns with a rise of errors towards the outer edge than I am of media that burns with a fairly large number of errors that are evenly spread throughout the disc. I know that one of the issues with alot of TDK -R media I've used as well as a number of scans I've seen is a rise of errors at the edge. Funny that none of the scans in this thread go past about 4000MB, so the rise in errors I've observed with this media would not pertain to these burns...

DrageMester 2006-05-21 13:38:15 UTC #4

I have burned as much as 4402 MB on the ScratcProof DVD+R media with no rise in PIE/PIF at the end, and I have burned as much as 4355 MB on the ScratchProof DVD-R media with no rise in PIE/PIF at the end.

I don't have any scans of full burns however.

TDK makes 16x rated ScratchProof media now. I haven't bough any yet and I'm trying to resist doing it until I have used up my small stock of 8x ScratchProof media. Must... resist... buying... more... media...

You can get the 16x DVD-R media from SVP in 10pc cakeboxes.

Wizzu 2006-05-21 13:42:33 UTC #5

Peekaboo, Scoobiedoobie and Drage talking about me? :bigsmile:

No actually I have been disappointed with the TTH02 (16X -R) in terms of burning quality (recent production, older stock is very good) and stopped recommending them because of this, but TDK 003 (16X +R) are outstanding for me in Pioneer 109, NEC3540A and Benq 1640, as were my TTG02.

About the scratchproof, I had never seen actual scans, and I'm puzzled by what I see here. :eek: There must be something with the scratchproof coating making the reading (or burning) process more "difficult"...?

@SantaKlaus: yes, these discs should be stable according to C't tests. I wouldn't worry too much if I were you, even if I understand that you're not happy with these scans considering the price of the media...

And I'm off...

SantaKlaus 2006-05-21 13:44:22 UTC #6

Is this "musicianese"? What does "C't" mean?

DrageMester 2006-05-21 13:48:29 UTC #7

I believe it's the name of a german magazine.

scoobiedoobie 2006-05-21 13:48:38 UTC #8

I thought you were also disappointed in the 8x -R more recently, but I guess not. :doh: Good to see you back to post, if only momentarily.

scoobiedoobie 2006-05-21 13:54:03 UTC #9

I might have a scan or two, if I can dig them up I'll post them. I have also seen it in scans from others with TTH01 so it was not isolated to my discs. Although your scans are very average, I would be less concerned with them than a disc with a rise at the edge. Either way though, neither the scans in this thread nor my results are very good. I get better results from media that has a much worse reputation than TDK. Some TDK media burns great, but it's overrated as a whole.

Correction: I don't think I've actually used TTH01, it's TTG02 that I'ved used for certain (as well as TTG01). So my own experience may not relate to TTH01.

TL0 2006-05-21 15:26:39 UTC #10

C't is the name of a German PC/Technology magazine, from the kind of testing they do on DVD media and burners, I have the impression they are a very good source of information. Certainly better than anything available in the English language :bigsmile:

_buck 2006-05-21 15:38:36 UTC #11

SantaKlaus: These would be made in Luxembourg, correct? I'm curious as to whether they were made by TDK Luxembourg or MAM-E.

Would you be able to give the inner hub serial?

Kim_Jong 2006-05-21 16:05:59 UTC #12

Here's a couple of scans of TDK ScratchProof DVD-R (also bought from SVP as singles in DVD case) burned in a 1650.

First scan is with SB on using BCFC firmware, second with SB off using BCHC firmware, WOPC disabled for both.

As you can see, there is a clump of PIF at the outer edge of the burn without SB enabled, but it could just be natural variation rather than lack of SB or different firmware. I don't have any more of this media left to test.

Hub serials:
Disc one: C05C272230aA314
Disc two: C05C272290aA315
Country of origin is not stated on the packaging.

SantaKlaus 2006-05-21 17:00:00 UTC #13

@Dragemester and TL0: thanks for the explanations about "C't". Is there anything on the web about these tests?

@Buck: I can't tell the country of origin, I've looked everywhere on the packages and... nothing. Here it's not mandatory to mention the country of origin so I'm not surprised.
So you could tell from the serials?
Sampercode: DVD-R 8X 4426A2
Serial: CO4L091911Â§395 (Â§= strange character, looking like something between an "a" and a "@")

About TDK as a whole, it's my first "disappointing" experience. I've always been pleased with their discs.

Anyway, as the gurus here tell me these discs should be fine, well.... but DrageMester, your TTH01 scans are much better than mine! I'm still thinking that I have a marginal batch.
I'll open another box (I have 3X 5-discs boxes) and check if they're the same...

@Kim_jong: your scans look great compared to mine!! :sad: (actually they look great, period...)

_buck 2006-05-21 21:57:31 UTC #14

Serial: CO4L091911Â§395 (Â§= strange character, looking like something between an "a" and a "@")[/QUOTE]

That looks like a TDK Luxembourg serial to me. I guess nobody is perfect.

_buck 2006-05-21 21:57:52 UTC #15

That looks like a TDK Luxembourg serial to me. I guess nobody is perfect.

TL0 2006-05-22 12:50:50 UTC #16

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13405

This is the only major source of english translated C't reports that I know of. You can thank the posters over at cdrlabs for that

I believe you can actually buy electronic versions of C't magazine on the internet but only in the original German language :sad:

SantaKlaus 2006-05-22 13:49:59 UTC #17

Thanks!

chef 2006-05-22 13:56:45 UTC #18

Yup, "computer & technik".

They also publish some of their articles on the heise.de site.