Newbie Quality Question

Newbie question

What is preferrable :

A disc (scanned with CD/DVD Speed) that has a PIE = 3500 and a PIF = 885, OR a disc with PIE = 23 000 and a PIF = 150 ? (generally, without looking at how high the spikes go)

I’m comparing two Verbatims, one made in India, the other in Taiwan (ProDisc).

The India disc is the one with the lowest PIE, but the Taiwan is the one with the lowest PIF.

It’s a lot easier for us to judge if you use the little disk icon in CD/DVD Speed and save the scan as a .PNG. Then we’d know what drive you have, what speed you scanned at, if all the PIE/PIF came from a general distribution or a spike, etc.

The discs where burnt on a Philips 1648, but scanned on a Philips ED16DVD. Since my BenQ, which I usually use to scan the disc’s, are in for replacement so the only way to scan was doing it with the external Philips. I think that the external philips scans diffrently (way of scanning the disc) that the BenQ because the “spikes” on PIF doesn’t go higher up that 2, while on the BenQ up to 8 on the same disk (have an old scan from the BenQ on one of the example disc)

so, here are the scans :

Verbatim Made in Taiwan (ProDisc) scanned at the Philips ED16DVD :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84704

Verbatim Made In India scanned at the Philips ED16DVD :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84705

and finally, the same disc as the last one (Verbatim, MII) scanned at a BenQ 1650

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84706

Have to add that all my MII Verbatim has very low PIE.

What would YOU prefer of these two disc types and why ?

What happened to your attachments? The links don’t work, and I cannot find them by searching your posts?

I don’t know actually. I haven’t added images before, so I probably made a mistake. Are there any guides on how to add an image (had trouble finding one) ?

test this :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84704

if that works, test the links on my previous posting again

Doesn’t work! :disagree:

Here’s a guide: Attaching disc quality scans to your post

so, here are the scans :

1st one : Verbatim Made In India scanned at the Philips ED16DVD
2nd one : Verbatim Made in Taiwan (ProDisc) scanned at the Philips ED16DVD

and finally, the same disc as the 1st one (Verbatim, MII) scanned at a BenQ 1650




I’m not sure what the Philips drive is based on or if it’s a reliable scanner. The BenQ, on the other hand, seems to have shown that the disc is written very well, just a few PIF spikes, but so long as they don’t go over 16, they’re acceptable. The disc also has very low jitter and PIE errors. I think both types of MCC are just fine for you.

The Philips drive looks like a high accuracy scanner (LiteOn, Samsung, NEC style).

By “high accuracy” do you mean a 1 ECC scanner as opposed to an 8 ECC scanner?

Because I really don’t think of NEC scanners as being highly accurate, but rather as scanners that can show impossible PIE levels and which can be quite picky about the scanning speed.

Oh yes, I just couldn’t remember the word. My bad. ^^"

What is the main difference between the two ?

DVD error correction is based on 32kB blocks of data divided into rows and columns, one such block is called an ECC block (ECC: Error Correcting Code).

A 1 ECC scanner will report the (correctable) parity errors and failures per single ECC block, whereas an 8 ECC scanner will report the sum per 8 consecutive ECC blocks.

It’s always possible for a program to calculate the sum over 8 ECC blocks given the values for each single block, but the reverse is not true.

If you don’t belive me, then please tell me which eight natural numbers have the sum 13?! :wink:

This means that in a sense the 1 ECC scanners are more precise, and the maximum PIF reported by a 1 ECC scanner and an 8 ECC scanner will usually be quite different (up to a factor of 8 higher, but statistically speaking it’s more likely to be only 3-4 times higher).

So I guess the BenQ 1650 is a 8 ECC scanner ?

That’s right! :iagree:

That Philips drive seems to be a rebadged Litey.
It seems, that all recent external Philips drives are Liteon based.

Michael