New Tages Info

vbimport

#1

I have made already a dozen of such copies on CD-RW. The problem is that i have made the image manually in a special way.
But in practice the image must be made by burning program that knows how to do it. Just be patient.
Also it is hard to make any conclusions because only one title is protected with it.
Also EFM crap has nothing to do here - all sectors are STANDARD. They are just written specially with some trick.

Venom386 said this at the Daemon's forums.

spath said that it has nothing to do with manipulated F3 frames, and since he is spath, I believe him. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

I will see if I can buy a Tages CD and test theories I have about this once I return home.


#2

Was just interested in finding out what prog uses tages as I would also like to play with it.

I am assuming that the written image is not 100% CLONE of the disk and that the trick in some way bypasses the protection and prolly writes the image without the protection,

However fascinating stuff SirDavidGuy I am going over to have a peek at Daemon’s forums :slight_smile:


#3

Originally posted by Hardjards
[B]Was just interested in finding out what prog uses tages as I would also like to play with it.

I am assuming that the written image is not 100% CLONE of the disk and that the trick in some way bypasses the protection and prolly writes the image without the protection,

However fascinating stuff SirDavidGuy I am going over to have a peek at Daemon’s forums :slight_smile: [/B]

So far, only MotoRacer 3.


#4

Beware that protections can differ from country to country, from continent to continent! Motoracer 3 has SafeDisk in the USA, but Tages in Europe (if I am not mistaken!).

:smiley:


#5

This is what rrawkins says:

try a asus burner you just leave the settings as you would for safedisk 2 this little baby does tages and all perfect copys every time which model well just take a guess me and a couple of mates have the same ones no problem at all and yet you have all these idiots chasing around lite-ons ha ha ha ha see ya

I don’t believe this is true! Does anyone know if this is true?

For they complete thread: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=48209


#6

I guess he has the USA version of MotoRacer which uses SafeDisk…


#7

try a asus burner you just leave the settings as you would for safedisk 2 this little baby does tages and all perfect copys every time which model well just take a guess me and a couple of mates have the same ones no problem at all and yet you have all these idiots chasing around lite-ons ha ha ha ha see ya

I serioulsy doubt it, Asus just rebadge other people’s burners anway so I doubt that the Asus badge suddenly makes it Tages capable. I think if they used safedisk anayliser or Clonny XL they would find that they have a version of SD. Besides that, there are some seriously big brains doing alot of research into this protection including the authors of Demon, Ollie and his crew and Blind suite team. If it was a simple firmware/hardware issue I reckon that it would be cut and dried allready. The good news is that maybe 10-20 people put tages together and that there is maybe 10,000–>100,000 people trying to pull it apart. You do the math!

United we are unstopable :slight_smile:


#8

hello well you all seem to have a lot to say about asus burners which i think unless you try you will never know yes i know of a person who copied moto racer 3 on a asus without any trouble and he says it was definitely tages protected i just cant believe how many sheep there are in this world just because someone writes a review about a lite-on or plextor everybody rushes out to get one i remember reading a review about a plextor on cd-freaks not long back that took over an hour to read laserlock and laughed my head off because my asus can do it in about 3min and about a third of the price so if you want to waste your money and stay a sheep be my guest but you wont see me with a lite-on or plextor because my moneys on the smart burner


#9

This has nothing to do with which hardware brands you prefer or the hardware brands other people prefer…

We are talking about Tages, a protection several copy-protection experts (like Olli, or Venom386) have stated that untill now it can’t be copied (with the current versions of 1:1 cloning software), only emulated.

Then there is problem with the fact that MotoRacer3 is protected by Tages in Europe, but protected by SafeDisk in the US and Australia.

Now you come and state that you know somebody with an Asus drive which can copy MotoRacer3 (the Tages version) with the SafeDisk profile…

SafeDisk profile <=> SafeDisk version of MotoRacer3 ???

This is the reason why we have to assume that you and your friends made a mistake.

:stuck_out_tongue:


#10

FutureProof has an Asus writer and I have little doubt he will tell you that tages is a no go with that drive and conventional copying software.


#11

Well, I haven’t got a Tages disc to test on, but I have a new theory.

The actual info on the disc could be slightly in-set in the data area.
A discs authenticity could be tested by measuring the spin-up times to that point on the disc.

This would agree with everything people have said so far in their experiments (The guy with the changing values said that he got different values from the code module at different times, I think [I haven’t got the actual thread link, so I can’t be sure], which would be helpful to stop cracking [ie. A cracker has to wait a few days to see if his crack really worked]).

Wouldn’t you be able to replicate this on a RAW burner? spath?

@spath: Could you possibly take a look at a Tages disc on one of those special machines you have access to?


#12

The MR3 game I bought in the USA is protected with Tages, not a version of SD. The disk cannot be copied with anything yet. Tages uses a physically altered media. At this time, only a patch to get around the protection will work. I have a patch for the first version of the game but not the later ones. I suppose by debugging the old patch I might get a clue as to what the patch is doing and perhaps an insite on how to write one for the new version.


#13

A discs authenticity could be tested by measuring the spin-up times to that point on the disc.

Food for thought SirDavidGuy, but I dont think we have quiet hit the nail on the head yet.

I was thinking about that for a while and I dont think it is how they are authenticating because there are so many different hardware specifications (ie different drives different spin times etc) even things like a bit of a finger print is going mess read times so it would be way to random. I guess it could be used if all drives spun up at the same speed (assuming quality control was better then that used by creative CD drives chuckle)

I would love to crawl into Demons or Ollie’s mind for a couple of moments and find out what they know!

Cool thread keep it going!


#14

They could measure the average time for each drive from, say, the beginning to end, and approximate using the curve that was returned.

The spin-up measuring can’t be too difficult, or CD-Cops wouldn’t be able to check the angle of the disc, right?

How does CD-Cops accomplish this task?


#15

Originally posted by Hardjards

…Asus just rebadge other people’s burners anway…

I wonder whose they rebadge because they do a damn fine job rejigging the chipset. Unsurpassed as a reader for anything. Nothing over 3’ 10". Most writes <3’.


#16

Then there is problem with the fact that MotoRacer3 is protected by Tages in Europe, but protected by SafeDisk in the US and Australia.

as far as i know motoracer 3 is protected by tages in australia. We get the same as europe for most games;)

hello well you all seem to have a lot to say about asus burners which i think unless you try you will never know yes i know of a person who copied moto racer 3 on a asus without any trouble and he says it was definitely tages protected i just cant believe how many sheep there are in this world j

you must have a magical burner dude because i only know of 2 or 3 people that know how to copy this protection and you and your asus burner AINT ONE OF EM:eek:


#17

Originally posted by slayerking
[B]

as far as i know motoracer 3 is protected by tages in australia. [/B]
Yup, confirmed. Me and Kimbo have it. Search on my nick & motoracer for further info.

\Data\Shared\Wave.aif (81920 bytes) is proof of tages


#18

its good to see that futureproof knows his burners


#19

@ SirDavidGuy

How does CD-Cops accomplish this task?

I am pretty sure the authentication on CD cops only checks the physical angle between the first and last accessible logical block on the CD. Somwhere on the disk is an encrypted 8 or in later incarnation 16 bit code that holds the angle information. With pressed CD’s they can be fairly certain that all of the CD’s they press from a batch from a single manufacturer will have the same physical angle (I guess that the algorthem must have some room for tolerance otherwise it would never work) Obviously the physical angle on the blank CD’s we buy aren’t going to be the same as the pressed CD’s (Unless you where really lucky and just jagged it) Some people reported success with some types of CD’s and with some types of burners however it was a pretty much hit and miss affair. I think kodak was one of the media that was meant to be more compatible (maybe there process produces CD’s that are closer physically to pressed cd’s???)

@Rrawkins

its good to see that futureproof knows his burners

Indeed he does, I was mistaken I did some searching and I was wrong, I thought ASUS where just rebadges but I was getting them confused with somone else, however I dare say if you ask Futureproof if his ASUS can cut Tages you will find that you are sadly mistaken.


#20

Obviously the physical angle on the blank CD’s we buy aren’t going to be the same as the pressed CD’s (Unless you where really lucky and just jagged it)

I think that the angle the disc is burned at changes the angle of the disc in the CD, since in early incarnations, it could be fooled depending on the write speed used.

And they could still check it by measuring the spin-up times, no?