Nero/Adaptec Best way to handle bugs?

Hi all,

I am new here but over the last week I have been reading just about every post I can find on Nero Burning ROM and InCD and Adaptec etc. I am trying to fix my problem but can’t seem to arrive at a solution and hoped someone could point me in the right direction.

I have a brand new computer I am putting together with an ASUS P4PE, P4 2.53, 512MB PC3200 DDR RAM, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, a Plextor 12/10/32A PlexWriter running Windows 2000 Pro. I have done a clean install with the drivers for all hardware and no programs yet (except for WinZip)

I decided to give Nero a try (used to use Easy CD Creator 4 on my old computer but moved the Plextor to the new machine) so took the copy from my brother (got it bundled with a new CDRW but prefers to use his old Adaptec full version software) and loaded it and updated it to 5.5.10.15 as well as installed InCD 3.5.20.

Well, I get the now classic “Illegal Request Error” when formatting a Memorex CD-RW 8-10x disc (mind you this worked in W2K, Easy CD Creator 4, in the Plextor on my prior PC so the media is good). I have gone through all the posts here and tried everything up to and including uninstalling, reinstalling, ASPI checks, version checking etc. Needless to say, it takes days to go through all that crap!

What I have decided is as follows but am not sure this is the best way to go and wanted opinions.

I can install Nero 5.5.10.15 and use that as the mastering software. I can install Adaptec DirectCD from my Plextor CD install disk and use that as the packet writer. End of story. Is this really the only alternative seeing as I can’t get InCD to work? Or should I just revert back to Easy CD Creator 4 and use what’s always worked in the past?

In another thread it’s suggested to not use packet writing but to use Multisession instead. I don’t see how that helps since it’s not really a good re-writable solution, is it? Maybe I don’t see how it ought to work instead of packet writing. Isn’t this only as good as using write once media until you want to erase the whole thing and write over it? Or am I missing the point?

Shouldn’t my plan to use Nero and DirectCD be ok?

Thanks for the help,

Kevin

P.S. Sorry this is such a lengthy post. Just edit it when and if you reply!

First, in contrast with your positive experience, many users reported problems with Memorex CD-RW discs; see, e.g.,

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9290

Thus you should definitely try better media before blaming InCD.

Second, although you “have gone through all the posts here”, I somehow doubt whether you have read the InCD guide

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64787

because it mentions problematic Memorex CD-RW discs at the beginning (in S2).

With a clean W2K SP3 installation and better media, you should be able to make InCD 3.52.00b work properly on your box. If you have not meddled with ASPI and Nero itself is working correctly with CD-RW media, the main point would be to check the IDE drivers; see S12 through S15 in the InCD guide.

Thus, if you decided to go through the InCD guide and reported your experiences carefully, we might be able to help you to get InCD working.

On the other hand, switching to the combination of Nero and DirectCD may also bring headaches. For instance, some versions of DirectCD can’t be installed or updated unless EasyCD Creator is installed as well, and apparently your ECDC 4 and its DCD should be upgraded anyway. Thus you may end up running Nero and ECDC/DCD, and while some users were able to do it in the past, it is not clear what happens for the latest versions.

BTW, since users are reporting problems with Nero 5.5.10.15x, it may be wise to step back to the earlier version

ftp://ftp.nero.com/Nero55107b.exe

Originally posted by KCK
[B]First, in contrast with your positive experience, many users reported problems with Memorex CD-RW discs; Thus you should definitely try better media before blaming InCD.

Second, although you “have gone through all the posts here”, I somehow doubt whether you have read the InCD guide

With a clean W2K SP3 installation and better media, you should be able to make InCD 3.52.00b work properly on your box

Thus, if you decided to go through the InCD guide and reported your experiences carefully, we might be able to help you to get InCD working.

On the other hand, switching to the combination of Nero and DirectCD may also bring headaches. For instance, some versions of DirectCD can’t be installed or updated unless EasyCD Creator is installed as well, and apparently your ECDC 4 and its DCD should be upgraded anyway. Thus you may end up running Nero and ECDC/DCD, and while some users were able to do it in the past, it is not clear what happens for the latest versions.

BTW, since users are reporting problems with Nero 5.5.10.15x, it may be wise to step back to the earlier version[/B]

Thanks for the reply.

First, yes, I just spent about 4 days going through all the documentation here (and elsewhere) including the InCD guide so thanks for implying I didn’t read it or that I really wasn’t trying or was lying about my investigations.

I read through everything I could find, installed and uninstalled, checked ASPI, IDE drivers, DMA settings, blah blah blah. Each and every time I attempted to use ANY version of InCD I could get my hands on, it failed, yet when I turned around and did the same exact thing on my other computer, running the same software except for EasyCD Creator 4 and DirectCD, it worked. Every time.

The Memorex media may not be up to snuff for some people, but on the same exact Plextor drive it works with DirectCD but not InCD. And let me tell you it’s no fun taking a CD drive in and out of a PC over and over and over to test not to mention installing and uninstalling various versions of Nero and InCD.

So the fact of the matter is that there seems to be so many problems with InCD insofar as getting it to work “out of the box”, it’s not worth the time. If one has to read through all the information as I have done this past week just to get packet writing to work using InCD, it’s definitely not a program that’s ready for use.

Sure, it may eventually work after a couple of weeks mucking with it, but that’s not worth it. If it doesn’t work out of the box, it’s not Scottish (meaning it’s crap).

So that having been said, I installed Nero and that works fine. I also installed DirectCD and that also works fine (on Memorex media too) so I guess that answers my question.

Kevin

Thank you for providing some quite interesting information.

If I understood your latest post correctly, each version of InCD you tried ran correctly “out of the box” on one of your computers, but failed on another computer which additionally has EasyCD Creator 4 and DirectCD; the same burner was used on both machines.

In other words, InCD worked fine with a reasonable clean OS, but failed when EasyCD Creator 4 and DirectCD were present.

This is not suprising, since conflicts between Roxio’s software and InCD are well known. The obvious solution would be to uninstall Roxio’s software on the machine in question, thus creating a software environment similar to that of the other machine on which InCD works. So did you try unistalling Roxio’s software? If you did, but InCD still failed, this would imply that there are some other significant differences between the two machines.

Actually I am perplexed why you installed Roxio’s software in the first place, since your initial post implied that you intended to use Nero and InCD only, starting from a clean OS, and that you were aware of potential conflicts with Roxio’s software.

Anyway, if you are happy with Nero and DirectCD, there is no need to try InCD again. Still, you may answer the questions above if only to clarify your experiences for other users.

It is good to hear that your Plextor burner works fine with Memorex CD-RW discs; still, many other users are less lucky with their burners.

Originally posted by KCK
[B]
If I understood your latest post correctly, each version of InCD you tried ran correctly “out of the box” on one of your computers, but failed on another computer which additionally has EasyCD Creator 4 and DirectCD; the same burner was used on both machines.

In other words, InCD worked fine with a reasonable clean OS, but failed when EasyCD Creator 4 and DirectCD were present.
[/B]

No, that’s not correct. On the old computer with Easy CD Creator 4 and DirectCD, everything works fine (including the PlexWriter and Memorex media - though I ought to clarify I am using 4x-10x and 8x-10x media, nothing higher than that). That computer is a loaded machine about a year old.

The new computer with a fresh install of Nero 5x (all versions of Nero I have installed work fine even multisessions on the same Memorex media) works fine using the same media and PlexWriter.

No version of InCD worked on the new computer as I always ended up with errors no matter what suggestions I followed.

I guess I could have clarified that I then used my old machine as a test by performing a cleanup of all ASPI, Adaptec, Media Player, etc. software I could find using several methods of registry cleansing etc… and then installing Nero and InCD and while Nero worked fine, InCD did not. Same errors.

So I tested the combination of Nero and DirectCD and it worked. That’s when I posted originally about the actual effectiveness of using this combination on my new computer. Was it actually a good idea and would it really work.

Now having moved everything back to the new computer and reinstalling Windows 2000 again, I have installed Nero 5.5.9.17 and DirectCD 3.0.5 with ASPI 4.71 and it seems to work fine including with the Plextor PlexWriter 12/10/32A and Memorex 4x-10x and 8x-10x CD-RW media.

Maybe InCD is not compatible with Memorex media when used on a PlexWriter 12/10/32A. Maybe there’s some other combination that’s not working. It’s just too involved to figure out.

While Nero is seeming a good product with plenty of features, InCD is definitely not ready out of the box. No retail software that fails to work after 7 days of fiddling is worth the effort.

Kevin

why not buy 1 diff name brand cdr and spend 2 bucks on like a sony, tdk, or fujifilm to elimate the idea that the problem is software driven (ie… incd/roxio issues) and not hardware driven (ie… incompatible blank medium).

kevinkar:

Each of your three posts specified a different testing scenario. The second post contradicted the first one, and the third post mentioned that you had DirectCD installed before making the first post, which in turn implied that DirectCD was not installed. Please understand that nobody can learn anything from your experience unless you provide consistent information.

Going back to your original InCD problem, it should be clear that most steps of my InCD guide may be skipped for a clean W2K installation (especially the ones related to Roxio’s software), and the remaining steps don’t need much time.

In other words, starting from a clean OS installation, it shouldn’t take more than an hour to check if InCD works for your combination of CD-RW media, the burner and the remaining hardware and software (e.g., chipset drivers, etc).

Further, apparently you didn’t need to get InCD running on your older computer.

To sum up, I don’t see why you had to spend 7 days fiddling with both machines.

I think your main problem is having both Adaptec and Ahead on the same system. I have used about every software there is and you definitely have to completely remove the Adaptec software before installing Nero, and I mean completely ie. software, tempfiles, and ALL registry entries. Adaptec is very bad at leaving remnants when removing from a system even if you use a registry cleaner! If I have a system that I need to setup with Ahead software or Feurio! I will reformat just to make sure I have a clean install of Nero/ Feurio!.

I’ll second that!:cool:

Originally posted by KCK
Each of your three posts specified a different testing scenario. The second post contradicted the first one, and the third post mentioned that you had DirectCD installed before making the first post, which in turn implied that DirectCD was not installed. Please understand that nobody can learn anything from your experience unless you provide consistent information.

Actually, the second post didn’t contradict the first, I believe you misunderstood.

The fact of the matter is my original post mentioned my troubles, that InCD failed to function and I wanted to know if using Nero and DirectCD together would be feasible. That was when you suggested I read information I already had read.

Originally posted by KCK
In other words, starting from a clean OS installation, it shouldn’t take more than an hour to check if InCD works for your combination of CD-RW media, the burner and the remaining hardware and software (e.g., chipset drivers, etc).

True. However, after an hour and several days researching and testing, on a clean install of W2K on the new machine, InCD failed every time no matter what. I then cleaned my old computer and installed Nero and InCD and InCD also failed.

Originally posted by KCK
Further, apparently you didn’t need to get InCD running on your older computer.

No, I didn’t need to for sure, but I had to rule out some variables between the two computers. The end result is that I actually reloaded BOTH computers with fresh installs of W2K, Nero and InCD and no matter what I did, InCD fails on both setups whereas DirectCD does not.

This tells me two things: 1) The media and hardware are good as well as that DirectCD functions without tweaking of any kind. 2) InCD fails and won’t work regardless of how much research I do nor what tips I follow.

Originally posted by KCK
To sum up, I don’t see why you had to spend 7 days fiddling with both machines.

Well, that’s the point of my third post in this thread. A day or so of fiddling maybe. More than a week is not. As for fiddling with both machines, I needed a “control” against which to test all configurations. Otherwise it could always point to hardware on the new computer rather than software. It still could be hardware, but the fact of the matter is that while Easy CD Creator & DirectCD 4 and Nero Buring ROM 5.x work on both machines with the Plextor drive and all my media, whereas no version of InCD works on either computer.

This tells me that InCD is at fault.

Regardless, Nero 5.x (whatever version it was I decided to keep) and DirectCD 4 coexist on the new machine fine and there are no issues so I found out the answer to my original question by experimentation.

Thanks,

Kevin

Originally posted by nmpaulcp
I think your main problem is having both Adaptec and Ahead on the same system. I have used about every software there is and you definitely have to completely remove the Adaptec software before installing Nero, and I mean completely ie. software, tempfiles, and ALL registry entries. Adaptec is very bad at leaving remnants when removing from a system even if you use a registry cleaner! If I have a system that I need to setup with Ahead software or Feurio! I will reformat just to make sure I have a clean install of Nero/ Feurio!.

Well, I think that’s a misunderstanding of my original post. I put together a new computer with a fresh install of Windows 2000 and then installed the latest version of Nero and InCD. InCD fails to work. At that time, I only had Adaptec ASPI installed, not Easy CD Creator or DirectCD.

Later, I tried Nero and InCD on my old machine after completely cleaning off the old Adaptec software and InCD failed on that machine. I even went so far as to reload that machine with a fresh install of W2K and Nero and InCD and InCD fails.

Reloading that old machine with yet another fresh install of W2K and then Easy CD Creator and DirectCD shows that the same exact Plextor drive and Memorex media work just fine.

Using Nero and InCD with that drive and other media also fails.

In this case, InCD fails every time whereas DirectCD works every time regardless of the hardware or software load.

For some people, InCD works. For me, it just doesn’t.

Nero Buring ROM and DirectCD together work fine for me. That’s my end solution.

Kevin

the only reasonthat nero and easy Cd work “fine” is becasue nero installs “nerocheck” which runs at start up and if easy Cd is installed and nero is not the default packet writing app nero doesnt load inCD. the reason being if it did then the immediate result would be a blue screenof death. TWO packet writing programs CANNOT be active at the same time.

and I might add that regardless of any cleaning you may have done you cannot really remove all elements of easy Cd without a complete reformat so if you merely uninstall easy Cd nero will still detect elements of it at start up and incd will still not load properly.

My point exactly;)

kevinkar
If it makes you feel any better, I’ve tried all known versions of InCD on 3 different Win2000 systems, different chipsets, drives, different everything. And every single one behaves the same way, BSOD occurs randomly with accessing discs. None of those systems ever had Roxio products on them.
In fairness, I’ve seen the same behaviour with ALL packet writing programs on my win2000 systems. I will no longer have one installed. In fact, it’s one of maybe 2 or three things that have EVER caused BSOD for me in win2000.

Originally posted by iss
[B]the only reasonthat nero and easy Cd work “fine” is becasue nero installs “nerocheck” which runs at start up and if easy Cd is installed and nero is not the default packet writing app nero doesnt load inCD. the reason being if it did then the immediate result would be a blue screenof death. TWO packet writing programs CANNOT be active at the same time.

and I might add that regardless of any cleaning you may have done you cannot really remove all elements of easy Cd without a complete reformat so if you merely uninstall easy Cd nero will still detect elements of it at start up and incd will still not load properly. [/B]

Evidently you missed that part of my post that stated I also performed a clean install of W2K on my old machine and then installed Nero and InCD and InCD still failed.

So on both machines I did in fact try InCD as the only packet writing software on the machine. InCD failed every time.

And the reason Nero and DirectCD work “fine” is because DirectCD works where InCD fails. It may be helped by also running “nerocheck” but the fact of the matter is that using the same hardware, media and OS, DirectCD works where InCD fails.

Mind you that’s on an OS that’s arguably the most stable, a CD writer that’s one of the best around and on media that, up until I started fiddling with Nero and InCD, always worked in the past.

Maybe it works for some, but InCD needs some major work to be a useful tool.

Kevin

Originally posted by rdgrimes

If it makes you feel any better, I’ve tried all known versions of InCD on 3 different Win2000 systems, different chipsets, drives, different everything. And every single one behaves the same way, BSOD occurs randomly with accessing discs. None of those systems ever had Roxio products on them.
In fairness, I’ve seen the same behaviour with ALL packet writing programs on my win2000 systems. I will no longer have one installed. In fact, it’s one of maybe 2 or three things that have EVER caused BSOD for me in win2000.

Thanks!

I have (as well as several other friends) received BSODs when accessing Adaptec formatted CDRWs on a Nero-based system. You would think that Nero would work to license from Adaptec whatever they need to access Adaptec formatted media without causing customers such problems.

To be fair, I have also attempted to read InCD formatted media in an Adaptec system and while there are occassional re-reads and a failure to be read at all, Adaptec has never caused me a BSOD when simply accessing “foreign formatted” media!

Regardless, I seem to be living well with Nero and DirectCD so I’ll stick by that for now!

Kevin