Need help finding the year of release for a CD-R

vbimport

#1

I wonder if anyone can help me verify.

It is claimed to be from 1999, limited to 100 numbered copies and it ripped suspiciously easy. PX-40TSi is a little touchy when it comes to CD-R, and still it ripped both discs without any errors using EAC, Secure mode, Test&Copy.

Marker for both CDs stamped on inner part of reflective layer:
74 PM6722
The reflective layer appears green to my eyes.

Number printed on inner clear plastic ring
CD1: TA9EP0674974
CD2: TA9EP0671574

I asked the question in the cat-box first and so I know it may be hard to pinpoint the exact year, but Ibex mentioned that it may be possible to disapprove that the discs existed in 1999?

I tried to get atip info from the disc using several programs and various plextor drives (Nero DiscSpeed, Nero InfoTool, CD-R atip reader.), but I get nothing (I may have done it wrong though). Is it possible to get to such info using a hex/disk-editor?

Can you read anything from the above numbers regarding year of manufacture?

I am happy to provide any additional output needed. The date found on the tracks when viewed in explorer is December 31st 1994 and so no help there.

:flower:


#2

Can you post a screenshot of the disc info tab in CD Speed?


#3

The format of the stamper & serial numbers appear to be consistent with older Taiyo Yuden 74min CD-R. But this is going a bit beyond my realm of expertise, so I cannot give a definite answer. Terminalvelocd may be a good expert to consult.

Are the discs unbranded? Is the reflective layer silver or gold? (And the top the same colour?) And is the hub frosted and the serial number moulded into the plastic, heat stamped or printed in ink? A photograph or two may be useful.


#4

Thanks for replying :slight_smile:

CD1:

CD2:

Didn’t tell me anything I’m afraid :wink:
The number in the plastic is printed in black ink but is still a little faint. it is not molded into the plastic. The other number is on the reflective layer (Silver/Gold? it appears green :confused:). It is an Ink-Jet CD-R with print (I’ll see if I can hook up the scanner and scan it later tonight).

Here is the log for CD2 taken from CD-R ATIP Reader

********************************************************* 
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
/// Date: Monday, December 26, 2016,  10:54 
/// Comment: CD2 
 
Media :  CD-R/RW media 
Media :  CD-R media 
Disc(Matrix) Manufacturer :  Unknow or Illegal Code 
Recording Characteristics :  Long Strategy Type (ex. Cyanine type media) 
Use :  Restricted  
Capacity (nominal) :  -0.29 Mb 
-------------------------------------- 
* ATIP DATA BLOCK 
-------------------------------------- 
Indicative Target Writing Power :  0 | 0 
DDCD  0 
Reference Speed :  0 
Unrestricted Use Disc :  0 
Reserved :  0 
Disc Type :  0 
Disc Sub-Type :  0 
A1 Valid :  0 
A2 Valid :  0 
A3 Valid :  0 
Reserved :  0 
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Min) :  00 
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Sec) :  00 
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Frame) :  00 
Reserved :  0 
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Min) :  00 
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Sec) :  00 
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Frame) :  00 
Reserved :  0 
Lowest Usable CLV Recording Speed :  0 
Highest Usable CLV Recording Speed :  0 
Power Multiplication Factor p :  0 
Target y value of the Modulation/Power function :  0 
Reserved :  0 
Recommended Erase/Write Power Ratio :  0 
Reserved :  0 
Reserved :  0 
A2 Values:  [0]  [0]  [0]  
Reserved :  0 
A3 Values:  [0]  [0]  [0]  
Reserved :  0 
  
-------------------------------------- 
* DISC INFORMATION DATA BLOCK 
-------------------------------------- 
Reserved :  0 
Erasable :  0 
State Of Last Session :  3 
Disc Status :  2 
Number of First Track on Disc :  1 
Number of Sessions :  1 
First Track Number in Last Session :  1 
Last Track Number in Last Session :  13 
Disc Identification Valid :  0 
Disc Bar Code Valid :  0 
Unrestricted Use Disc :  0 
Reserved :  0 
DBit :  0 
BG Format Status :  0 
Disc Type :  0 
Disc Identification :   [0]  [0]  [0]  [0]  
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Hour) :  0 
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Min) :  255 
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Sec) :  255 
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Frame) :  255 
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Hour):  0 
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Min):  255 
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Sec):  255 
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Frame):  255 
Disc Bar Code :   [0]  [0]  [0]  [0]  [0]  [0]  [0]  [0]  
Reserved :  0 
Number of OPC Tables :  0 
-------------------------------------- 
* ATIP DATA BLOCK 
-------------------------------------- 
00 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
01 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 
02 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
03 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
04 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
05 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
06 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
07 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
08 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
09 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
10 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
11 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
12 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
13 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
14 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
15 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
16 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
17 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
18 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
19 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
20 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
21 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
22 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
23 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
24 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
25 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
26 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
27 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
28 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
29 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
30 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
31 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
  
-------------------------------------- 
* DISC INFORMATION DATA BLOCK 
-------------------------------------- 
00 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
01 |  0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 
02 |  0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 
03 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 
04 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 
05 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 
06 |  0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 
07 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
08 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
09 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
10 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
11 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
12 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
13 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
14 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
15 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
16 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
17 |  1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
18 |  1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
19 |  1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
20 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
21 |  1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
22 |  1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
23 |  1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
24 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
25 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
26 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
27 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
28 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
29 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
30 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
31 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
32 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 
33 |  0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
********************************************************* 




#5

The stamper & hub codes look similar to this 74min 1-8x Taiyo Yuden in EZ647’s collection, which is promising.

http://ez647.sk/budget.html


#6

[QUOTE=Xercus;2786023]Thanks for replying :slight_smile:

[/QUOTE]
Very strange. CD-ROM drives cannot read ATIP codes, but the Plextor writer should have been able to.

Eureka! Just had an idea… Plextools allows you to set the writer drives to a ‘hide CD-R’ mode. Can you make sure that it turned off. I think it is a drive mode setting which is retained even after rebooting. It would account for the no ATIP problem perfectly.

Do you have anything like AnyDVD installed or Clone CD? AnyDVD & similar cause all sorts of problems, even when disabled. And Clone CD also had a ‘hide CD-R’ mode.

If still no luck, can you try a modern(ish) non-Plextor DVD writer? A Mediatek-based Samsung or Lite-On would be ideal, but whatever you have available will do.


#7

O.k.? You mean the discs could have been around by late 1999?

LOL, OK. I have CloneCD 4.2.2 on that PC. I’ll retry using another computer and a Sony Optiarc…


#8

You are right, there has to be something on that computer, better uninstall CloneCD… I did put it in my server and ran the Nero tool there:

It is identical for both CDs, however ATIP reader will not work without ASPI and I simply don’t know if there are any implementations compatible with Server 2012R2 or 2016… If it is important to get the info, I’ll give it a shot (it’s all just a backup away) :flower:



#9

Scanner-functionality is not present currently and so I can’t scan the CD-Rs, but I can describe it. The number on the reflective layer follows the curve of the CD, but the printed number is straight across, all in capital letters (now that’s brief) :wink:

The question remains though. Is it possible that these are from 1999? And if so, my kudos to Taiyo Yuden for quality.


#10

You have the datecode in the serial which clearly states it’s manufactured in 1999 (or 2009, but being 74min that’s unlikely). I have yet to figure out Taiyo Yuden’s month/day encoding from their serial codes though.

Here’s a scan for a similar stamper code from 2001:
http://club.myce.com/f77/taiyo-yuden-76069/index8.html#post2492036


#11

The length code should identify which version of Taiyo Yuden CD-R you have (with CD-R/RW the ATIP code is only half the story), from which it should be possible to determine a minimum age for your discs.

Once again, I don’t have Pepst’s or Terminalvelocd’s encyclopaedic knowledge of the old stuff. But I’ve done a bit of research and 74:43:00 should identify the discs as being the version which was rated at 16x or slower. (The code changed to 74:43:01 for the 32x version.)

A quick search of the forum has found some examples with the same ATIP & length codes here.

Memorex-6x-74min
Sony-8x-74min
TDK-12x-74min

So this puts their age in the correct time period - it is a model & version of CD-R which was being manufactured in 1999.

I guess you just have a good quality disc which has been stored properly and reads as well as the day it was written. :flower:


#12

I would never rely on ATIP not to mention length code for determining the age of the disc… with TY it has decent accuracy but it’s still not reliable. However almost all manufacturers write the month/date/year in their serial (some even go down to the exact second). This is a clear and shut case, the serial code says its 1999 and it’s a 74min CD-R with stamper starting with 74 PM. So let’s not confuse things further. :slight_smile:


#13

Now that I’ll simply take as a fact. Personally I’m unable to read anything at all from it, then again, it never was my field of excellence :slight_smile: :flower:

However, most older CD-Rs simply will not rip with PX-40TSi but it is my first choice (EAC would never have existed if it were not for the UltraPlex). To my surprise it ripped (albeit at an average of 0.5x-1x speed), without error. The CD-Rs are not present in the Accurate-Rip database, but listening to it does not reveal any flaws and ‘no errors occurred’ for the rip indicate that… Simply incredible.

At the end of it, I will have to add one record of course: What recording was this?

De Press - De Finite (1999)
which I bought for about 350 Euros without too much hope of being able to rip it (yep, I am a nutcase)
Being that it is only of local interest to Norway and Poland, I may add that this is Post-Punk or New Wave.


#14

[QUOTE=aztekk;2786039]However almost all manufacturers write the month/date/year in their serial (some even go down to the exact second). [/QUOTE]
Maybe you would like to start a thread and post a comprehensive list?

As far as I can recall only the date codes for Moser Baer, CMC Magnetics & Prodisc have been discussed before on this forum. If you have accurate information for deciphering other manufacturers’ serial numbers, then I am sure it would be of great interest to other members.


#15

[QUOTE=Xercus;2786041]
At the end of it, I will have to add one record of course: What recording was this?

De Press - De Finite (1999)
which I bought for about 350 Euros without too much hope of being able to rip it (yep, I am a nutcase)
Being that it is only of local interest to Norway and Poland, I may add that this is Post-Punk or New Wave.[/QUOTE]
I’m afraid I can’t help you there. :flower:

If you haven’t done so already, I would strongly advise making a backup copy stored on a [U]data[/U] formatted optical disc (either as a WAV or FLAC image, or as individual tracks). Audio CDs have very poor error correction and no proper checksum. Data CDs (and all DVDs & BDs) have an additional third level of error correction and a checksum provided by the filesystem, so they have much better integrity. The only reason we need this ‘secure ripping’ lark is to try and overcome the deficiencies of the audio CD data formatting, which sacrificed data integrity for additional capacity (and reducing the sophistication & price of CD players).


#16

Hmm, I am scanning that image over and over with my eyes… Serial? What in the above screenshot is serial? I simply fail to see it??? (I have a lot of knowledge as to the xxx-book standards, but it mostly stops there. Which is why CloneCD had me… It does not affect verified rips). Care to educate an uneducated soul on the subject?


#17

[QUOTE=Ibex;2786043]I’m afraid I can’t help you there. :flower:

If you haven’t done so already, I would strongly advise making a backup copy stored on a [U]data[/U] formatted optical disc (either as a WAV or FLAC image, or as individual tracks). Audio CDs have very poor error correction and no proper checksum. Data CDs (and all DVDs & BDs) have an additional third level of error correction and a checksum provided by the filesystem, so they have much better integrity. The only reason we need this ‘secure ripping’ lark is to try and overcome the deficiencies of the audio CD data formatting, which sacrificed data integrity for additional capacity (and reducing the sophistication & price of CD players).[/QUOTE]

LOL, you old fart you - I am sadly way beyond any state of repair, music 'til I die :wink:
It is my sole pleasure, computers for the most my sole frustration and humor above all… unless we hit the dirt which we do from time to time more often than other times, sort of a natural consequence of life :bigsmile:


#18

[QUOTE=Ibex;2786042]Maybe you would like to start a thread and post a comprehensive list?

As far as I can recall only the date codes for Moser Baer, CMC Magnetics & Prodisc have been discussed before on this forum. If you have accurate information for deciphering other manufacturers’ serial numbers, then I am sure it would be of great interest to other members.[/QUOTE]

Out of current manufacturers I can decipher at least MBI, Ritek, CMC and TY serial date codes. Also have this info on many older manufacturers, that are now out of business. I mainly gathered this myself as its not rocket science but I’ve verified it by analyzing the various hub codes for media in the last 15-20 years. You can pretty much figure out any mfg’s serial formats this way so long as you have enough samples to compare. From the mfg’s I mentioned I can extract MM/DD/YYYY (or more) from the date code except for Taiyo Yuden which I have so far only figured out YYYY. I don’t know if anyone else knows how/if month and day are encoded in TY serials…

Combining all serial formats date code extraction into one thread did cross my mind a few months ago lol. Never got to it though as I assumed most people here already have this information or wouldn’t care. Though it would probably be good for newer users or generally easier access to these methods.

[QUOTE=Xercus;2786045]Hmm, I am scanning that image over and over with my eyes… Serial? What in the above screenshot is serial? I simply fail to see it??? [/QUOTE]

Sorry, not sure what you referring to… if its the serial I got the date from that’s the hub code you posted.

Also I completely agree with Ibex on archiving the disk to a Mode-1 CD-R as WAV or FLAC/ALAC. I personally do this for my 1990s cassette tapes, I also store a small MP3 along with it so I can play it back on my CD player (doesn’t support FLAC).


#19

[QUOTE=aztekk;2786049]Sorry, not sure what you referring to… if its the serial I got the date from that’s the hub code you posted.

Also I completely agree with Ibex on archiving the disk to a Mode-1 CD-R as WAV or FLAC/ALAC. I personally do this for my 1990s cassette tapes, I also store a small MP3 along with it so I can play it back on my CD player (doesn’t support FLAC).[/QUOTE]

O.k, I’ll await that second thread to be able to decrypt it myself.

Sure, four hard drive copies with a 25% PAR2 recovery set (using MultiPAR) so far, but it will end up on an optical backup as well, most probably a DVD ±R :slight_smile:


#20

[QUOTE=Xercus;2786059]O.k, I’ll await that second thread to be able to decrypt it myself.[/QUOTE]

Took me 3 tries because the page kept refreshing itself (lol) but I sent you a PM. Hope you got it cause I can’t see any of the 3 PM attempts in my outbox…