Need advice

vbimport

#1

I want to buy 1 of Liteon dvd burners, but i can’t decide which of the following i should buy LDW 411/451S, LDW 811/851S or SOHW 812S. I don’t care about writing speed, i have a lot of time:) . What i do care about is WRITING QUALITY, MEDIA COMPATIBILITY and drive reliability. Please help me make this important buying decision. :bow: Which Liteon should i buy? :confused: Maybe i would better to go with another brand?
Thank you for cooperation !!!


#2

The LiteOn SOHW 812S with +R media has given me execellent results. Not to fond of the -R results.


#3

Save yourself time and agony–get the NEC2500A. Gets great scans here, cheaper than the Liteon. Looks like Liteon has to get its act together with these DVD burners. Maybe in a year or so… Read my post here:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94833

I almost got an 812 today, but after some more research here I discovered I’d have to be a real fanatical idiot to try another Liteon. The 812 is better than the other models, and gets some nice scans but nothing that matches the NEC2500A in quality and in media compatibility. Also NEC just released a new firmware with a lot more media supported this week.

I’m simply JEALOUS of the wonderful clean scans I see from the NEC2500A. These are rare with the LiteONs I noticed.

SICK AND TIRED OF THE UNPREDICTABILITY WITH THE 411S, TODAY I ORDERED AN NEC2500A from Newegg for $82. I have a brand new 411S–only burned 5 discs–cheap if you want it!!! (Just kidding). I would be embarrassed to even sell it on eBay. I’ll try to send it back to LiteON. Spoke to someone there today–“never heard of K-Probe. Nobody ever told me about it. If it burns OK with our recommended media–if you can read your data back–it’s fine and we won’t take it back. Period”. Idiot. Maybe I’ll find someone more understanding tommorrow.

Someone here said they exchanged his unreliable 411S. So even their tech support is UNPREDICTABLE!

Tek.


#4

@TekWiz

Oh, such helpful advice. :rolleyes: Please don’t post if you having nothing to offer but flamebait.

@mestnyj

Don’t get the _11S series. The _51S series is pretty good. So is the 812S. If you don’t care about 8x -R, then get the _51S series. Otherwise, the 812S is a good drive.


#5

Yeah, you now sound like you work for LiteON. Oh, sorry–I now realize you don’t work for LiteON–You work ON LiteON :-)! Yes all your contributions are greatly appreciated.

But in this case this guy just wants a good drive:

READ HIS REQUEST before you cry “flame”.

This is what he says: “I don’t care about writing speed, i have a lot of time . What i do care about is WRITING QUALITY, MEDIA COMPATIBILITY and drive reliability.” He also says he is willing to go with another brand! So he is concerned because of all the stuff he has been reading in these forums about the LiteONs–basically inconsistent results–some people have great burns, and some just can’t get anything better than mediocre.

The 411S and 811S are junk and even you admit it!!! True the x51S are better but still not great. Ironically the 401S was actually pretty good I believe but it’s only +. The 812S appears to be a nice improvement but still not quite up to the NEC2500A from the scans I’ve seen here. Some are pretty good but none are as good as the best NEC2500A scans–some of those I’ve never seen from a LiteON. Sony has some nice scans like that sometimes.

The purpose of CDFreaks is to HELP PEOPLE OUT, not promote a certain product that some people are fanatical about. Look I love LiteON, I think it’s a fantastic company that has made some fantastic products. I’m the first one to promote LiteON and tell people it’s the best. But the DVD recorders from LiteON are relatively a new offering and they are having some trouble tweaking them right now.

All his requests don’t apply to LiteONs.

WRITING QUALITY: It’s often unpredictable on the LiteONs and depends largely on HIGH-QUALITY media. Media is often inconsistent.

MEDIA COMPATIBILITY: LiteON has trouble with a lot of media and many off-brands.

DRIVE RELIABILITY: A lot of people post here saying their LiteON has failed after a few months.

In fact if you think I’m trying to flame which I’m of course not–I’m trying to help this person who is looking for a good, reliable drive that writes high quality discs on a wide-range of media why don’t you peruse this wonderful comparison of actual scans done on the same media between a 411S and a NEC2500A. In fact the 411S scans look quite nice compared to the crummy results on my NEW 411S which LiteON tech support says is just fine as long as I can read back the data on their recommended media.

You may not believe me, but you can definately believe these scans:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=588361#post588361

In fact keep in mind that scanning discs made on the same drive actually is supposed to give better results then scanning discs made on another drive. So the 411S burns scanned on the 411S should give better results than burns made on the NEC2500A scanned on the 411S. But the 411S is so bad it can’t even scan its own burns anywhere as good as those made on the NEC2500A.

Even someone on another thread who was pretty set on the LiteON changed his mind after seeing some scans and some debate–he finally admitted the NEC makes much better burns most of the time.

So if you think I’m trying to start a flame think again. No REASONABLE person looking at the information on the LiteONs and the NEC2500A would agree with you about the LiteONs being the best in those areas he is interested in.

Sure the LiteONs are fun for all sorts of hacks and are great for ripping and messing around with the firmware. But for the average person who just wants to burn some discs reliably on average media there are better choices.

With the number of posts you have you should be ashamed of yourself of speaking like this to people spending their precious time trying to help a poor soul asking for fair and honest advice on what to buy.

I TRUELY APPRECIATE THE EFFORT YOU HAVE PUT INTO THESE FORUMS POSTING HIGHLY USEFUL AND INTERESTING ADVICE. BUT THAT DOESN’T AUTOMATICALLY GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO TALK DOWN TO OTHER POSTERS.

The LiteON 812S retail costs like $10 more than the NEC bulk. So spend more for WHAT? What’s the advantage of the LiteON over NEC2500A for reliability, compatibility and quality burns?

Hard data is always better than empty claims.

Tek.


#6

hey tek… rather than be a flamethrower maybe you should read the original request: I want to buy 1 of Liteon dvd burners, but i can’t decide which

and contrary to your experience i and many others have burned many quality dvds and have very few problems. my 411s and 811s have probably burned about 200 or so without much drama.

as far as the quality of the nec i am not really going to debate that with you other than to say that without kprobe and a liteon drive to check with you would have no idea what quality a nec is…

the person you were insulting (code2^16) is actually one of the most impressive liteon hackers we have. he has come up with (in combination with codeking) the media speedhack to burn media faster than rated, the readspeed hack to allow full speed reading of burned dvds, the autobitsetting hack (bitsetting is something that nec drives don’t do from what i understand) and read speed unlocks for many dvd rom readers as well.


#7

Originally posted by mestnyj
Which Liteon should i buy? :confused: Maybe i would better to go with another brand?
Thank you for cooperation !!!

cnlson: You say I’m being a dickhead: but I did read his post: He also says maybe he “would better go with another brand.”

About code2^16–yes I realized that he was a pretty useful person to the forum and that he has invested a lot of time with the LiteON drives.

But that still doesn’t give him the right to say I’m offering nothing but “flamebait”. I was only offering my personal experience and my impression of my research on these forums on which I have spent a lot of valuable time.

I can understand his response as when someone has invested so much time in something they tend to love it and praise it. They are blinded by love. But what is good for one person isn’t always good for everyone else.

I think that both of you are highly over reacting to a simply recommendation which didn’t fit with your views.

It’s like the people who were invested in the Amiga. What arguments they got into with people who praised the Mac or the PC and vice-versa. People just love to have something to admire.

When I was younger I also tended to become set on things. I loved Radio Shack and their products. Later I found I was a fool.

Religious people are the same way–the love a certain religion and refuse to see its shortcomings.

It’s always better to be open minded and look at the facts.

If you look at 100 scans from an NEC and 100 from Liteon, and the NEC is great 80% of the time, decent on 10% and low on 10% but the LiteOn is great only 30% and just ok on the other 30% and horrible on the remaining 40%, guess which drive is better for the average buyer to purchase.

Quality control is a big factor. If you have 10 drives on the shelf and 3 of them are not up to spec… you get my drift.

Reading dozens of posts you tend to get a picture of what’s going on, and reading the LiteON forum and then reading the NEC forum, you really with an unbiased mind tend to get the idea that the NEC is the better writer.

And I don’t know why I keep stating over and over again that I do love LiteON and I think it’s a great company and you guys keep acting like I greatly insulted LiteON. I PREFER LITEON. How many times do I have to say this? I PREFER LITEON. I THINK IT’S A GREAT COMPANY. For some people who don’t mind some lesser quality burns and enjoy all the technical stuff the LiteONs may be a good choice–but for the average person who just wants to burn quality discs on a wide range of media, there is really no reason not to get another manufacturer right now. I really hope LiteON finally gets their DVD writers to where their CD-Writers are now. When they are there, I will definately buy another LiteON. But right now I just don’t have the time or energy to try to make this 411S give me quality burns. I can’t go buying media from all over just to test it. I just want to burn what I can get easily and I want it to burn as best I it can be burned. Period.

Here’s a quote from you:

“you got your nec so take your bitch ass over to their forum and whine there.”

Not a very nice thing to say. Really sounds like high school again…

Time to grow up.

Tek.

P.S. Waste of time to write all this but it’s amazing how people are so closed-minded and unfair. Just an example of how primitive the much of the human race is. Very dissapointing. This is not the place to argue about what is the better drive.


#8

Pointing out, in a nice, civil manner, LiteOn’s flaws == okay (I do that too a lot, if people haven’t noticed)

Pointing out LiteOn’s flaws with colorful metaphors such as “bulls***” == flamebait


#9

Originally posted by code65536
[B]Pointing out, in a nice, civil manner, LiteOn’s flaws == okay (I do that too a lot, if people haven’t noticed)

Pointing out LiteOn’s flaws with colorful metaphors such as “bulls***” == flamebait [/B]

Well before you even posted this reply I edited my post and removed that. Sorry. I was just tired–long day. (And was annoyed about having to get the NEC–I need to get the job done here).

Also cnlson said that without K-Probe I would not know how good the LiteON is. THAT’S WHY I LOVE LITEON so much–it’s a great company. I know that they are trying to improve the quality and that’s why they have the K-Probe. Also this generates more interest in the drives. And that’s why I’m so unhappy I had to get the NEC now. I would like a nice burning LiteON instead but can’t take the chance now…

Tek.


#10

Originally posted by TekWiz
When I was younger I also tended to become set on things. I loved Radio Shack and their products. Later I found I was a fool.

aww picking on radio shack too… man now i am bummed :slight_smile: i had a tandy 1000sx (8.138 mhtz) until 1997, actually my dad had it until i forced him to buy a 200 mhtz computer in 1998

Originally posted by TekWiz
Not a very nice thing to say. Really sounds like high school again…
[/B]

i have removed the comments you mentioned and i apologize. there have been quite a few people who have gotten frustrated with their drives and then blast liteon. you yourself do not even have a drive from another manufacturer but, out of frustration apparently, have vented in several posts and threads about your 411s.

i have a 411s and have no problem with it’s write quality and eventually most people who start out frustrated as you are end up happy with their drives. but i will admit that firmware issues with fs0j caused me to revert to fs0f before i wasted a bunch of media


#11

Here is my personal opinion on why I would buy a 812S:

  • The large amount of firmware work/releases LiteOn usually produces is great.

  • The tools for the drive are great. The drive supports bit setting, has a speedhack tool and many others which to me set it apart from the rest (see the tools guide in my sig if you want more info).

  • If are you planning on buying marginal media you will probably want to get the NEC 2500A, but I would never use marginal media on any drive period. My data is more important to me then that. Therefore that’s not really a negative to me.

  • The LiteOn community (people like you and me) is really amazing and I don’t think there is another optical drive manufacturer that has such great people supporting it.

  • LiteOn drives have always performed excellent at being able to copy the latest CD copy protections.

  • One last little tid-bit. There has been recent news that down the road it may be possible to overclock the 812S to a dual layer capable 832S (yet to be released). Of course this is not guaranteed and should not be a main reason to buy it. But for an enthusiast like me it’s an interesting prospect.

I’m not a reviewer and I don’t pretend to be, but for the above reasons that is why I personally would buy a 812S over anything else on the market right now. The NEC 2500A would be my second choice.

I would also like to mention that I love my 411S(@811S) and have had no problems with is yet. The scans are nice and the discs (I use DVD-R for now) have played in everything I’ve thrown them in. People tend to forget that LiteOn was and probably still is far more popular then NEC overall. Therefore there are going to be more posts with problems about them simply because of the number of owners out there. In that regard to a certain extent the amount of “complaints” is just a matter of mathematics.


#12

On that note, it might also help to know your audience. If you post something like that in the NEC forum, you could probably get away with it. :wink: But in the LiteOn forum, you gotta be more careful, as you’ll get people like cnlson who will defend it. :wink: As for me, I don’t mind LiteOn criticism as long as it’s done nicely and fairly. :iagree:


#13

Thanks for all your replies.

Ssseth thanks for your list–you are perfectly right and that’s exactly why I am crazy about LiteON! I rave about the company to everyone I know.

As I keep saying in my previous posts I LOVE LITEON AND WOULD PREFER IT, and yesterday was on the verge of buying the 812S–in fact both the 812S and 2500A were in my shopping cart. But after looking at some more scans here I just felt safer getting the 2500A and it was $10 cheaper to boot.

See, I have spent $50 on blank DVDs (like $1.50 to $2 each), and I am not burning a lot. I just need to burn like 20 or 30 data dvds for offline storage. I was really not happy with the 5 or so discs I burned with the 411S. Also the K-Probe scans of its own burns are not always better than the same discs on the 163. So I feel it’s one of the problematic drives. It’s an Oct. 2003.

I really felt that the 812S is a big improvement and that’s why I had it in the shopping cart. But at the moment I already have this LiteON for all it’s cool features and K-Probe capability, and I just needed something QUICK with high-quality burning so I can burn these $50 worth of Ricohs and Ritek G4s. (TDK branded).

I just saw the 2500A on the whole tended to be cleaner than the 812S, although the 812S had some great scans.

Also DON’T IGNORE the fact that when I got the 411S I did know that it didn’t work well with cheap media (and I didn’t buy any except for 3 princos for a test). Most of the scans I saw from the 411S were fine enough for me to think I should buy it. Also when I got it it was being changed to the 451S and I was hoping I would get that one since several people said they were getting the 451S. So I got it from CC with 2 $30 rebates (a pain).

And the results are dissapointing with the $50 worth of TDK I got.

So you can’t blame me for just buying the 2500A to try and see if I get some real nice burns. Who know maybe it won’t burn as good as I hope… But overall, judging from scans done in these forums, it does have an edge in burn quality. It’s not as “cute” as the LiteONs for sure.

Maybe I sounded a little negative because I was unhappy I couldn’t buy the 812S confidently, and due to my dissapointment with the 411S not performing up to my expectations.

Can you blame me? :bow:

Tek.


#14

Well, I’ll put it this way : You’re lucky to have those RitekG04 discs working well in your NEC. Loads of people have been complaining about the G04s not working well with the NEC. Lite-On drives will work well with above average media, eg. Ritek, Maxell, TY, Verbatim and RicohJPN in my experience. Some people have problems with crappy cheapo media, eg. AN31 and LongTen.Shrug. I guess you get what you pay for with those discs.
Hugs his 851S.
:wink:


#15

Originally posted by Bhairav
Well, I’ll put it this way : You’re lucky to have those RitekG04 discs working well in your NEC. Loads of people have been complaining about the G04s not working well with the NEC. Lite-On drives will work well with above average media, eg. Ritek, Maxell, TY, Verbatim and RicohJPN in my experience. Some people have problems with crappy cheapo media, eg. AN31 and LongTen.Shrug. I guess you get what you pay for with those discs.
Hugs his 851S.
:wink:

I have 20 jeweled TDK RicohJPN +R, and 10 TDK RitekG4 -R. The RitekG4 burns pretty well in the 411. The Ricoh doesn’t do too great. I don’t have the NEC yet so we’ll see. I don’t like cheap discs and I don’t want to use any. But I will get whatever reportedly burns well. Hopefully the NEC will burn the Ricohs better than my 411S.

Tek.


#16

Thank you all for replies !!!
Probly i would buy 812S. Since it is fully supported by manufacturer.
NEC doesn’t support its drive(2500) as good as liteon supports its drives. 2500 exist only in oem version. I had bad experience with one oem dvd+rw drive(HL-DT-ST DVD+RW GCA-4040N), which was preinstalled in my dell notebook, bec. i couldn’t find neither firmware updates nor bitsetting utilities.


#17

@ mestnyj
If you do not have DVD-ROM drive (i.e. you will use your new DVD burner for reading / grabbing DVDs) then definitely AVOID NEC-2500A !!!
It has horrible (or I would say none) error correction. It has problems even with slightly damaged / scratched DVDs. I’ve seen some review - they tested NEC2500 and 811S. CD/DVD Speed Scandisc result for NEC was about 80% unreadable. LiteON read everything with no problem (100% fine, no unreadable, no damaged sectors).