NEC ND2500A Results Using Verbatim DVD DL

Here’s the results and comparison of the Original DVD-Video and the Burn in Verbatim DVD+R DL setting to DVD-Rom. Using Herrie’s 1.07 v2 beta5 Firmware thks alot to him. :bow: and with the help of DVD Decrypter.
The test DVD-Video title Air Force One SUPERBIT Title.
Results below:
Verbatim DVD+R DL and Original DVD SUPERBIT.

Hello. Greetings from Greece to everyone in the forum. I have a NEC ND-2500A but with 2510 2.16 (Ritek DL support) firmware installed. Interesting scans you’ve got there. Did you test the DVD+R DL with a standalone DVD player, if yes with which one? Did you encounter any problems at the layer change or at the second layer? Last request, can you post some Kprobe results? Anyway, i hope i get some Ritek DL blanks for testing by next week if they arrive in Greece. At this moment, the only available DL discs are the Verbatim ones at the “wonderful” price of $21 / disc!!! The Ritek DL discs are expected to be sold at $13/disc which is a significantly lower price. All this story with Dual Layer recording is like a joke. First the DL recorders and then, here in Greece, after 5 whole months since the NEC ND-2510 came out, the first Verbatim 2.4x. Now the ND-3500 is available (4x DL), and the 4x DL media will be available when blue ray recorders are out on the market. :eek: I think they messed everything. And if someone gets a ND-3500 now, it is a question if it will support DL media from other companies other than Verbatim(MKM) and Ritek, before the new NEC model comes out. I see that the future of DVD is not so long as we might think. Blue ray and high definition content will very soon replace DVDs. I only hope that we will have some time to play with the latest high speed DVD+R DL technology for a while until we say goodbye to DVD… :frowning:

At the risk of going slightly off topic, I dont think DVD is going to die just yet. Firstly, chances are Blu-Ray is gonna be very expensive, both for the recording equipment and the media. Secondly, dvd will possibly get even cheaper as manufacturers and retailers try to keep people using the format at least until they start blu-ray production themselves. CDRs are still being used, even though recordable dvds have been with us for years now. It’ll all come down to price and support, I only got my first DVD-RW last month even though the technology and hardware has been around for years. I will only buy dual layer media when (and if) the price goes to less than £1 per disc. There isnt enough advantage for me to justify shelling out £4 for one disk when i can get 25 cheap dvd-r’s for that (infosmart) or 25 datawrite grays for 6.99.

Anyways, back on topic. It is nioce to see that the two scans are very similar. This just shows how high a quality recorder NEC has produced. One thing that would be interesting to see would be an error count/surface scan, though i understand that not everyone has the capability to do this (i dont!). Just to clarify, the original is the top graph, and the copy the second graph?

zepplin, as ardov asked, have u tried this on a standalone and if so which one and did it work ok?

ardov. goto.

they sell verbatim (€8.78) and ritek (€6.58) dual layer disks. they ship to greece.

as far as blue ray disks being available when dvd dl 4x disks become mainstream - this is unlikely. blu ray disks may well be announced, but once again there will be delay before they become available for good prices.

in fact while on the subject of blu ray u gotta ask yourself is this format actually gonna take off? until standalone players become widely available, i doubt blu ray will take off in europe. remember dvd-ram? these disks were available long long ago, yet hardly anyone ever used them; however, the moment standalone dvd players came out and media that could be read by these standalone players was available (ie. dvd±r), these new formats were the ones to take off. personally i think blu ray will become similar to dvd-ram - a niche market - and stands no chance until blu ray standalone players are in many many homes.

Sorry guys, I’ve not done the Kprobe scans yet. Will post it as soon as I do the Kprobe.
The top graph is the copy Verbatim Disk label Disk Type DVD-ROM.
Bottom graph is the Original DVD Disk label Disk Type DVD-Video.
Yes so far I’ve only tested the disk playing smoothly like the original on my standalone player PIONEER DV-355 and my own PC DVD MSI.
Sorry guys but I live in Singapore myself as the Disk Verbatim is made in Singapore and the price here is $8.8US = 7.2Euro = 4.9British Pound.

First of all, i am so happy to hear that you can watch the movie flawlessly using your standalone player. We will wait until the Kprobe scans are ready!!! :stuck_out_tongue:
I hope it’s the last time i will get out of topic for the rest of my post!!! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Now, as for the “blue ray part” of my first post, i agree that it might sound a little bit unreal. My intention was primarily to show the wrong timing of DL recording. Last year i bought my first NEC DVD-Writer, ND-1100A. 8 months ago , i read an article saying that some companies announced that there will be no DL recording technology available in the future due to DVD recording technology limitations. 5 months ago, the first NEC ND-2510 shipment arrived in Greece, also saw an article saying that the first standalone blue ray disc recorder prototype is ready. 5 days ago,, an online greek shop, announced the availability of Verbatim DL discs. Also, 5 days ago ND-3500AG was announced to be selling in our country at 100EUROS. Just take a look at the timeline here. The 4x DL media are expected to arrive in Greece after Christmas according to a blank media company salesman. Until then 8x DL recorders will be here, and until really high speed DL media arrives in Greece, Blue ray or HD-DVD will be available!!!
And as i said “…I only hope that we will have some time to play with the latest high speed DVD+R DL technology for a while until we say goodbye to DVD…”.

     Tarby, i fully agree with you. I will buy DL discs only when they'll sell for 1.5 or 2 EUROS. Now you only pay the R&D of DL recording development. Have you guys heard that the cost of producing a DL blank disc costs only 5 cents more compared to the production of a SL blank disc? The only purpose of current DL blank media is for firmware testing. 

      Sunama, very interesting link, but the shipping and handling increases the price of each DL disc to 12.8 EUROS. I think i can wait one or two weeks until Ritek DL is available in Greece. Many thanks though for your help!!! 

     Zepp3lin, "Sorry guys but I live in Singapore myself as the Disk Verbatim is made in Singapore and the price here is $8.8US = 7.2Euro = 4.9British Pound." -----YOU LUCKY GUY!!!  :a  :a  :a  :a  :a  :a  :a  :a

I did a quick scan with all setting set to Auto on the Kprobe on my MSI drive.
Here’s the result:

I am having a problem with Verbatim DL burn. I encoded and burned a movie for my first DL attempt, and it played back well in My NEC 2510a (which created it,BTW). :bow:
Where the problem came in was when I attempted to play it in my set-top, which up until this point had played everything thrown at it. It took a little longer for the disc to load the title screen, but when I pushed play nothing happened. :a :Z :a
I read somewhere afterwards that you need to fill the disc completely for it to work. Is this valid? Anyone else had this problem? :confused: Thanks in advance for your help.

Did you bitset it to DVD-ROM?

Kprobe test at 4x speed. Its almost the same as in Max Speed.

Those spikes at the PIF error graphs are because of the disc or because of the reader’s chipset behaviour? It reminds me of the well known Mediatek chipset bug. What do you think?


That MSI DVD-Rom is not giving you accurate K-Probe scans. Look at your sampling count of 5386, this should be something like 200,000 for a dual layer disc.

I would trust your read speed scans instead.

Yes, I set the booktype to DVD-ROM using DVDinfoPro. Like I said, it plays in the NEC but not in my settop. Any other suggestions? And thanks TripleH for your response. :smiley:

You are welcome… If possible, are you able to post a transfer rate test or a scan using KProbe?

OK, this is strange. The transfer rate test is a perfect arc and there are no read errors in either DVDinfoPro or the scandisk test in Nero’s CD/DVD Speed Tool. :confused: :confused:

I’ve got no choice and LiteOn Drives here are always out of stock.

Can herrie’s Ritek DL firmware also burn Verbatim DL discs?

Also I can get unbranded DL discs and the place which sell them say they are Mitsubishi so they are the same as Verbatim right?

What firmware is the best to burn Verbatim DL media?

Yes ! Verbatim is Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation (MCC)

My Verbatim DL is MKM 001. Is this an inferior batch?

                        Media Information                            

Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
Media code/Manufacturer ID MKM 001
Media Product Revision Number 00h
Application id
Implementation id AHEAD Nero
Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 8/24/2004 0:24:25
Format Capacity 7.36GB(7.90GB)
Book Type DVD-ROM
Media Type DVD+R DL
Data area starting sector 30000h
Data area end sector 3ADFEFh
Layer 0 end sector 206FFFh
Linear Density 0.293um/bit
Track Density 0.74um/track
Number of Layers 2
Layer Track Path direction (OTP) Opposite track path

No! Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation = Mistubishi Kagaku Media


Their DL media has the MKM MID.