Nec 4551 and 2.2G PIE and PIF Spike

fjorger 2006-03-10 18:03:51 UTC #1

Hello everyone,

I have a big problem with NEC 4551 using both DVD-R and +R 16x media (Mostly Verbatim, but other media also), they have a lot of pixalization on a specific part of the movie ( Using a Samsung HD945 standalone ).

When I tried to scan them using both Nec4551 and Benq 1655 and also a Lite-on recorder, and they all show a huge spike 400 (PIE) and 50 (PIF) at 2.2G mark (it's always on the same position).

The results were the same using 1.07 original firmware or the Liggy and Dee 1Z2 (thank you guys for this great firmware :flower: ).

Anyone having the same problem?

It is probably a faulty (un-calibrated) drive?

BTW using BENQ 1655 and my old NEC 3500 to record the same type of discs, no Spike at all.

I'm going to test other speeds 4x and 8x and see what happens.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

FJorgeR.

PS: I will post my scans soon ( just need to find a server ).

Wizzu 2006-03-11 00:44:52 UTC #2

Hi,

You don't need a server, just save your scans as png and use the "manage attachments" feature when posting.

The 2.2GB spike is probably a re-linking point at a speed change (6X > 8X I guess), these spikes are usual with NEC burns and are in general not a problem, but as is reaches 50 in PIF (that's high!), it's probably the source of your reading issues.
I've myself had a couple of discs with these re-linking spikes that did have readability issues in all drives and players but my NECs. - but, fortunately, no more than 3 burns out of 175+ NEC burns. Your case is rather extreme.

Maybe another firmware could help. Meanwhile, if these were actually 8X burns, using 6X instead could be a workaround. If all fails, RMA the drive.

zebadee 2006-03-11 06:07:09 UTC #3

Hi
fjorger, take a look here regarding posting scans.

Arfi-Gorgona-O 2006-03-12 13:48:31 UTC #4

Well sometimes it happened to me also.But not in 2.2 but 1.1 lol Its kinda funny.And im writing 8x speed.Didnt write lower to see the results but it doesn't happen all the time so...If your problem is big then RMA the drive if not,i say choose the disks and write speed that suit your drive needs (if that make sense..).

fjorger 2006-03-12 15:09:38 UTC #5

Hi there,

Thanks Francksoy / zebadee and Arfi-Gorgona-O for your feedback.

Well the discs were all recorded at their max speed (16x), and the speed at the 2.2G point is 10X/12X.

I think I have to return the drive, and I don't understand why doesn't happen on their old model 3500? I think NEC shot themself's on the foot.

Regards,

FJorgeR.

Here are the scans :

The first two are the same disc DVD-R at 16x (scanned with Benq and Nec).
The third scanned with Benq (DVD+R at 16x).

fjorger 2006-03-12 15:26:55 UTC #6

Again a few more

The fist two are scanned using Benq at 4x and 8x
The last two are scanned using the NEC at 1x and 5x

They represent the same disc.

I'm going to use some older disc's and record them at 4x / 6x / and 8x and see what happens.

Dartman 2006-03-12 16:11:08 UTC #7

I get those too with my 4550, most of the time they never affect playback. Try slowing down the NEC to 5x and I bet it at least wont show them anymore.

fjorger 2006-03-13 17:06:50 UTC #8

Okay,

Now I have more data.

My suspicion was true, it happens between the 10x to 12x speed shift!

If I record any disc at 12x the Spike point moves from 2.2G (when 16x is used) to 3.8G, because the 10x to 12x happens at that particular position!

After a few more tests, this time at 8x, I would expect no spike at all since no 10x to 12x were used. Well I was wrong, they did have a spike (at 3.4G) and I said to myself well what is happening now? And I recorded another disc once again at 8x, then using IMGBurn export function to DVDInfo, I saw a speed down (not due to HDD output fluctuation or the OS using the HDD) because it repeats itself anytime with any disc.

Well the problem isn't solved but at least I know that I should stay away from 8 speed or up, and avoiding speed drops during recordings. Go figure, I paid for a 16x recorder and now I can only use it at 4x or 6x speed :(!

Conclusions: My drive has problems when re-liking function is used. I will try to swap the unit and hope the new will be free from these annoying Spike problems.

I will post my scans soon.

FJorgeR.

fjorger 2006-03-13 17:08:02 UTC #9

Thanks for your feedback,

Unfortunately mine do

FJorgeR.

fjorger 2006-03-13 17:14:09 UTC #10

fjorger:

Okay,

Now I have more data.

My suspicion was true, it happens between the 10x to 12x speed shift!

If I record any disc at 12x the Spike point moves from 2.2G (when 16x is used) to 3.8G, because the 10x to 12x happens at that particular position!

After a few more tests, this time at 8x, I would expect no spike at all since no 10x to 12x were used. Well I was wrong, they did have a spike (at 3.4G) and I said to myself well what is happening now? And I recorded another disc once again at 8x, then using IMGBurn export function to DVDInfo, I saw a speed down (not due to HDD output fluctuation or the OS using the HDD) because it repeats itself anytime with any disc.

Well the problem isn't solved but at least I know that I should stay away from 8 speed or up, and avoiding speed drops during recordings. Go figure, I paid for a 16x recorder and now I can only use it at 4x or 6x speed :(!

Conclusions: My drive has problems when re-liking function is used. I will try to swap the unit and hope the new will be free from these annoying Spike problems.

I will post my scans soon.

FJorgeR.

My scans :

First two are Nec4551 recorded at 12x and 8x

The last one at 8x with a re-linking problem

worker 2006-03-13 17:15:00 UTC #11

Actually the 3500's did this when they were first released. Later firmwares resolved most of this. I think NEC can resolve this but they need to made aware of it. The problem is they have really bad customer support.

fjorger 2006-03-13 18:01:39 UTC #12

Yes you are right,

But one doubt remains, why is that some drives don't have this kind of beaviour?

FJorgeR.

fjorger 2006-03-16 16:15:06 UTC #13

Hi again,

Hopping to fix the Spike problem I upgraded my Nec4551 using the latest 1.22 firmware.

Burned a Datawrite Titanium printable DVD-R 16x!

Here are the results (scanned at 8x using both Nec and Benq) :

And no luck :(. I will return the drive this weekend!

Arfi-Gorgona-O 2006-03-17 00:29:52 UTC #14

Oh man this scans are bad...RMA the drive if you can,i really dont know what to suggest right now.

scarfaceal 2006-03-17 09:12:42 UTC #15

I have the same problems with my 3550A crossflashed at 4551A when I burn Verb MCC004 at 12X there's a spike at 3.8Gig mark, but when I burn it at 8X there's no spike. First two scans were discs burned at 12X. Last scan was burned at 8X.

fjorger 2006-03-17 16:24:42 UTC #16

Hi Scarfaceal,

Yep, since both recorders share the same hardware , cross flashed or not.

I will return my unit this weekend, I think you should do the same (but cross flashed it will be hard).

BTW are there users not having any spike problem at all?? I'm one of the unlucky ones?

Regards,

FJorgeR.

Dartman 2006-03-17 17:02:46 UTC #17

I think we all have the little weird spikes, just most of the time it doesn't affect playback so most of us ignore it now.

seeker010 2006-03-17 17:59:49 UTC #18

spikes yes. peaks no. rma the drive I say.

johnnydavidson 2006-03-17 20:10:19 UTC #19

My burns looked the same way using 1.22 and 1-z2. I am trying 1.84 from liggy site and I have had two 16x verbs burned at 8x with 97 scores and no sign of the spikes. Maybe flukes but worth trying. This was the bitsetting fw. Give it a shot before you send it back.

asururasu 2006-03-19 03:40:01 UTC #20

4551(4550 crossflashed)
MCC004@12X BY NERO7
ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO AVOID THIS?