Mysterious spike on Verbatim 16x

Hi,
actually my DVR 109 XLA from pioneer likes MCC 03RG20 but what´s that?
Something serious to worry about?

Benq reports 8ECC so 8*4=32 MAX.
It can be serious but it’s also possible that it isn’t that serious because it takes over 8 blocks.
I recommend doing a few additional tests to see if it’s a real problem or not.

:iagree:
Perform a second scan to see if it was only a glitch.
Perform a transfert rate test to check for any slowdown.
95% odds that the spike is only a glitch, but who knows.
Also check for any speckle of dust :wink: - you have no idea how a single speckle of dust or any impurity may affect a scan, sometimes. :bigsmile:

A single speck of dust would generate more than a single PIF spike, unless perhaps it is a nanoparticle?!

Perhaps a very tiny scratch could cause this, but I don’t think it’s likely.

Perhaps the spike could be from a re-linking point on the disc?

There’s at least two threads about the effect of dust on burns scans:

[ul]
[li]How Does Dust Affect A Burn[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]What a single speck of dust does to scans[/li][/ul]

The scan was performed @8ECC, so I think it’s not a clear cut as you put it. Maybe you’re right, but with my own discs it has already happened to me that a tiny solid impurity creates that fine a PIF peak line @8ECC. :iagree:

“Nanoparticle”… :confused: do I have to take the joke as a lighthearted one or a sarcastic one? Oh forget it. :cool:

I meant it part jokingly and part seriously.

If you get a PIF spike as narrow as one pixel wide in the scan from a particle on the surface, I think you probably wouldn’t be able to see the particle with the naked eye.

So the particle wouldn’t literally be measured in nanometers but in microns (µm).

Have a look at the scans in my previous thread and you’ll see a much wider PIF peak from a very small particle of dust on the disc surface.

I had a spike on MCC004 to 8 PIF right before 1 gig mark, see this link http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47343&stc=1

Had the same question as you so I scanned it on Plextool and shows that spot with max of 2 PIF, see below scan (Note that the MAX pif for Plexot = 4) so I concluded the spike was not serious on my particular burn.

And on side note, the quality on Verbatim doesn’t seem very consisten for me. One disc I would be getting VERY GOOD quality score of 99 with PIE & PIF (max & total) even LOWER THAN TY, and next disc I would have spikes and dropped score to 94. Granted, I have same situation with TY but my QS has been between 97 ~ 99 and rarely do I get spikes from TY.


When I re-read my own post I realized that the dust speck was in fact NOT very small, so maybe I’m wrong about how narrow a PIF spike you can get from a visible particle on the disc surface? :confused:

See, that’s one of the reasons why I value your input on this board :slight_smile: - good faith :cool:

Still your points make sense. You got me trying to calculate the surface area of an ECC block. Yeah, I’m THAT mad. (sometimes) :bigsmile:

I’m not finished with the calculations yet. :doh:

Isn’t this a little fanatical? “Not consistent” because it drops to a 94 QS? :confused: - I personally consider anything over 90 as “best burn” (@1ECC)! :eek:

Do you realise that the scan you link to, the one with the “spike”, is actually an excellent scan and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it? When we talk about “spikes” here, it’s “out-of-specs” spikes, i.e. over 4 when scanning @1ECC and over 16 (theoritical only) when scanning @8ECC

BTW, isn’t your Plextor scan performed @1ECC? It looks like. I’m not familiar with Plextor scans.

(1) My point about “consitency” was comparing to the TY medias I’ve also burned. Below are 2 scans. As I said, I had 1 disc with 99 score which has the LOWEST PIF count (the total count) which my own TY burns can’t even touch and the next disc I had a lot more PIFs and dropped it to 94. And as I said, I have the same variation with TY (there’s always variation in disc quality from any manufacutre IMO), but the difference is the variation is smaller on TY from my OWN experience. One disc I get 97 the next I might get 99 (as oppose to 94 to 99) and rarely do I see spikes. This is what I mean. Of course, everyone’s standard and tolerance is different. I mean, that QS of 94 is well within standard and if you consider that is still within the consistency then hey I would not argue either.

(2) Yes I realize there’s nothing wrong with the scan I linked in the previous post. Maybe you didn’t read my whole post, but as I said I tested it in my plextor drive and conluded that it wasn’t a serious problem. So I didn’t say it was bad burn. In fact I concluded wasn’t seriouls problem Could be better though. heheh :stuck_out_tongue: Also, either you misunderstood or I misunderstood. The first post form FUMO posted a scan that’s WITHIN the spec (his max is 16) so I thought we are still talking about spikes within spec? How did the subject shift into OUT OF SPEC spike? Anyway, the reason I posted that scan was in reference to Fumo’s scan which shows similar spike he was concerend about, and I posted another “back-up” scan from Plextor to assure him that it should not be a problem.

And yes, as mentioned in my last post the MAX PIF (considered within spec) allowed from Plextor scan is 4.



OK - neither will I :flower:

Yes I had read your entire post ! But I understand you decided to cross-check the disc because you were worried about the PIF peaks in the first scan… that’s what I found, personally and with my standards and in my book, strange, because for me this first scan was excellent and didn’t need any cross-checking :slight_smile:

Mmmmh let’s say you have a point here, though 16 PIF is for most “the limit” when scanning @8ECC. The theorical limit is 32, but this can be irrelevant for simple mathematic reasons (impossible to know if one of the ECC rows has more than 4 PI failures). So I assumed Fumo was worried because the spikes reached this “treshold” number (which triggers, BTW, the color change in CD-DVDSpeed).

The thing I wanted to make clearer (if possible) is that on this forum, in general, when we refer to “single spikes” as problematic, it’s out-of-specs or borderline single spikes we’re talking about. So I felt you were slightly off-topic by mentioning your own spike of 8 PI failures (half the “treshold”…) in a topic like this one… no big deal actually :cool:

Oh and in case no one already said it (I know it happens): welcome to the forum :slight_smile:

Yup I was worried about PIF hence the corss-check. And you are correct, I didnt’ really need that because it checked out just fine anyway. hahah. :slight_smile:

Gotcha! Now I understand what you mean. Thanks for the welcoming to the forum. I’m still learning a lot of new things from this forum and the folks on CDF have been more than helpful. When I first got my Plextor 716 (had problems with it), it’s the guys in the Plex forum that helped me pinpointed the problem and got me a working drive. I’m very glad to have found this wonderful place. :bigsmile: