My Verbatim DVD+R DL MIS MKM 001 degrading FAST

[lawrywild]

These were burnt in a GSA-E10N, at 2.4x, with ImgBurn. Not sure of exact date but must've been around 4 months ago. I didn't have a drive to scan then, but verification and TRT were perfect, now on the same drive, it's barely readable.. (I did however manage to get the data off intact (LG ftmfw!))

I didn't save pics of the scans of the other discs, but they are all pretty similar to this one.. They were all stored in a Amaray HD-DVD Box (high quality), most have never been touched since burn. The burnable surface below the disc can only be described as 'wavey'. Lots of wavey lines are visible..

PS: One other disc had 500000 PO Failures

[negritude]

Please post the inner-hub serial number for the disk you scanned above, and any others that you say are degrading. What version firmware are you using with the E10N? Is there a reason these disks were burned with the E10N instead of your H55L?

[lawrywild]

ZD9789-DVR-V850A

The plastic ring has: PV78H5L66331C35

Purchased from SVP.

My H55L doesn’t seem to like burning dual layer. The first disc failed in the H55L, then I got scared because they’re expensive and burnt them all without failure in my E10N. Also my H55L spits out my fake Ricoh Aone’s whereas my E10N will write to them fine. (although they are complete shit and only 1/5 is readable)

I’ll try to get pics of scans of the other discs from the batch. What else is interesting is the first code (DVR one) has been stamped twice, overlapping eachother (like ZD9789-DZVDR-V9875809A-DVR-V850A kinda…)

edit: latest JE07

[lawrywild]

Here’s another…

[Cressida]

I know the “wavey” effect from SL burns and to me this would indicate that maybe the burn wasn’t perfect to begin with.

[cd_pirate]

[QUOTE=lawrywild;2032048]These were burnt in a GSA-E10N, at 2.4x, with ImgBurn. Not sure of exact date but must’ve been around 4 months ago. I didn’t have a drive to scan then, but verification and TRT were perfect, now on the same drive, it’s barely readable… (I did however manage to get the data off intact (LG ftmfw!))

I didn’t save pics of the scans of the other discs, but they are all pretty similar to this one… They were all stored in a Amaray HD-DVD Box (high quality), most have never been touched since burn. The burnable surface below the disc can only be described as ‘wavey’. Lots of wavey lines are visible…

PS: One other disc had 500000 PO Failures :O[/QUOTE]

Dunno if that’s degrading, just looks like a shit burn that has typical errors at the layer break and right at the end of the second layer also.

2.4x was probably too slow of a burn speed. I think DL should be burned @ 4x minimum these days. Would you burn a SL disc @ 2.4x with good results? Probably not so I tend to apply the same reasoning with DL discs.

Initial scans would have made this a clear cut case but we don’t know the original burn quality.

Monitor the disc from now, post another scan to this thread in a months time. If it is indeed degrading fast, there will be more degradation in one months time.

[lawrywild]

Aye, I’ll keep an eye on them and scan them maybe once a week.

[Arachne]

If you can find some of the 8x ones (MKM 003), they burn very well on my own E10N with JE07 firmware (at the rated 8x).

Never tried the MKM 001s though…those burns really surprise me coming from the LG. I’m tempted to grab a pack of MKM 001 (sod the price) and try them on the E10N now…

[lawrywild]

Aye, The E10N is actually a really good burner for DL, atleast from my experience (and yours). I find it hard to believe the burns were this bad from the start… but the above find it hard to believe they degraded, so it’s very weird…

I guess it could have been a shoddy batch, but I don’t recall the waves being there straight after the burn. The TRT was fine back then, isn’t now so that seems to me more like degradation.

[_H_itman]

lawrywild, I too am seeing some of these Verbs degrade pretty fast. Some of them are hanging in there ok, but some have degraded quite a bit. And these include discs that had exceptional quality scans immediately after burned.

Attached are scans of a disc that was burned in December 2007. First scan is from immediately after the burn, and the 2nd scan is from a few days ago.(April 2008) Disc was burned on a Pioneer DVR-111, and kept in a jewel case.

[achemen]

i thought Verb DL MIS was the best around

makes me

[getit29]

[QUOTE=achemen;2039871]i thought Verb DL MIS was the best around

makes me [/QUOTE]
I guess all discs and brands are subject to some degradation over time but that
doesn’t look good for Verbies to degrade that much that fast.

[minaelromany]

The second disc scan doesn’t seem “degradation” to me , because PIE isnot affected and number one rule for media degradation is : Higher PIE even before higher PIF

Maybe these errors are scratches (although I doubt that because they are near the layer break an maybe it is harm done to the disc by a player that screwed the layer break

[Wizzu]

[QUOTE=minaelromany;2039972]The second disc scan doesn’t seem “degradation” to me , because PIE isnot affected and number one rule for media degradation is : Higher PIE even before higher PIF [/quote]I wholeheartedly back this up.

Maybe these errors are scratches
I think they most likely are.

People sometimes tend to take PIF clusters from handling damage or dust particles, as a sign of “natural” degradation far too easily. - unstable discs always show, AFAIK, an increase in PIE density before showing any PIF increase. And isolated PIF clusters are due to surface defects, dust, scratches…

I’m not saying it cannot be degradation, just that it takes far more than a couple of scans and a couple of PIF clusters to draw conclusions about a disc’s inherent stability. From the scans posted here, and fro my experience, I see nothing that could indicate a probable degradation [I]more[/I] than bad handling (2nd case) or poor burning quality in the first place (1rst case).

[_H_itman]

I didn’t realize degradation didn’t apply to PIF errors, but the PIF errors are what I’m looking at. This specific disc was never put into a standalone player. After it was scanned and the contents copied back to the drive to test it(from DVD-ROM drive), it went directly into a full-size jewel case (not slim) and sat in cabinet in a room at about 70 degrees for approx. four months.(Burned December 7th '07) Now the contents of the disc will only fully copy back to the HDD when in my plextor 716A, and it struggles. This specific disc was handled like a piece of fragile glass, and that is also why I know the specifics of this particular disc and felt it worthy to post in this thread. I attempted to give you an even more up-to-date scan of the disc, but now CD-Speed totally halts about half-way and won’t finish. I don’t know what’s up with it, but it is definitely strange.

[Wizzu]

itman;2040120’]I didn’t realize degradation didn’t apply to PIF errors

We didn’t say that.

I don’t know what’s up with it, but it is definitely strange.
Have you [I]actually[/I] checked the surface for defects, damage, specks of dust or anything like that? As long as you don’t, you’re relying on conjectures… - good handling and storing is no guarantee that nothing goes wrong.

To check the surface, you need to put the disc under a strong, direct, close, fluorescent light (halogen is perfect), and look at it closely. Many scratches, particularly circular ones, can be tricky to pinpoint.

[_H_itman]

[QUOTE=Francksoy;2040132]We didn’t say that. Have you [I]actually[/I] checked the surface for defects, damage, specks of dust or anything like that? As long as you don’t, you’re relying on conjectures… - good handling and storing is no guarantee that nothing goes wrong.

To check the surface, you need to put the disc under a strong, direct, close, fluorescent light (halogen is perfect), and look at it closely. Many scratches, particularly circular ones, can be tricky to pinpoint.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I checked the disc surface under a light before I ever posted in this thread. It’s the first thing I did when I started having issues with the disc that I couldn’t explain. I’ve also scanned it with my Plextor and got similar result.

[minaelromany]

Do you have other discs with the same behaviour ? Or is it just one disc ?

[vroom]

Well after this i decided that it was time to rescan my only Verbatim DL +R dvd that i have.

Disc was burned 07 April 2007 (dont remember the recorder), but the result is very good for me.

[lawrywild]

Obviously not ALL Verbatim DL degrades. That’s not we’re saying. Mine did, and so did [H]itman’s, my discs went STRAIGHT into a hd dvd box after the burn. They are scratch and dust free. Completely speckless.