My 411s - Bad drive, bad media (Ritek +R), or weird KProbe?

Ok, I’ll be the first to admit, I’m new to DVD burning and the 411s is my first (but I’ve had many CD burners). I’ve finally gotten around to some serious testing and I’m getting results that seem nowhere near what other “good” results are.

So, here’s some extensive data. I appeal to the great ones here to make some educated observations. :bow:

Constant data. Completely reloaded system (other issues there) running WinXP. Plenty of free space and not fragmented. Burning with DVDDecrypter exclusively. Drive is a 411s running the latest FSOJ firmware. Using LiteON’s latest Booksetting utility to set the +R’s to type -ROM for compatibility. Burning kids movies mainly to prevent the dreaded scratches of death that have already claimed a few victims :a All the media here is Ritek labeled RiDATA 4x (Arita from OfficeMax sale). The media code is

00000000 08 02 00 00 01 0F 01 00 00 03 00 00 00 25 E1 CF .............%..
00000010 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 52 49 54 45 4B 00 00 00 52 .......RITEK...R
00000020 30 32 01 38 23 54 37 09 00 3C 65 00 A0 5F 14 14 02.8#T7..<e.._..
00000030 0A 0A 0A 0A 01 19 1B 0B 0B 0E 0F 01 00 00 00 00 ................

All scans are 8ECC, but scanned at 4x AND at 1x. In one case I’ll point out, I tried burning the media at 2.4x and scanning it at 4, 2.4, and 1. The 2.4 burn didn’t look all that good. Based upon the 1x scans, the media appears useable in all of these, but I’m still wondering what in the heck is going on? Do I have a marginal or bad burner? Should I RMA it? Or do I have really back luck with media. I’ve tried a few other brands with very similar results including some Imation, HP, and even a pack of Apple 4x DVD-R’s (Maxell).

Here’s the first pair.

And the 1x scan


And another pair, first the 4x scan


And the 1x scan


A seemingly bad burn at 4x and scanned at 4x prompted me to try writing to the disk using the other SUPPORTED speed based upon the info from DVDInfo, 2.4x. So here are three scans, 4x, 2.4x, and 1x.


And scanned at 2.4x


And finally 1x. Obviously the PI errors are still pretty bad and not comparible to ones burned at 4x.


I’ve many more scans, but these are pretty typical. I did try a scan of a retail (pressed) disk and it gets very good results as one would expect.

It would be cool if the author of KProbe supported some command like access to the program so it could be run in a batch mode to scan a disk extensively (multiple speeds, multiple runs) and have the raw error data exported to be really analyzed statistically. Then a true understanding might come out.

So, any opinions? Do I need to have my drive repaired or am I expecting too much from KProbe and the disks are all fine. I ask because my next task is archiving off a bunch of DV tapes to DVD (I’ll still keep the DV tapes). I’d prefer to have all the burning kinks worked out before I start working on the tapes of the kids.

Judging by your scans, its seems almost on par with the 811S using RICOHJPNR01 media… At least your scans are close to consistant from start to finish…

Hi!

Don’t worry. I have similar bad results on media with the same Ritek media code.

Have a look at my thread:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?threadid=89027

Nevertheless, these discs can be read flawlessly by numerous DVD standalone players. The KProbe values of other discs are much better.

I highly doubt the accuracy of KProbe.

Don’t judge your media too much by k-probe scans I’d say. If the discs work in the DVD-player(s) you want to play it in and you get consistent results in k-probe (no matter how bad), then you’re doing OK I guess.

If the media is not working on your dvd-players, try returning the media and change to a different brand of dye (Ricoh for example).

Please be aware that DVD quality testing is still very much in its infancy and that there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Gof,
could you post some CD/DVD speed scans from the Nero toolkit ? Please do this scan in your DVD-rom player.
I expect it will read normal. If there are a lot fluctuations in your curve it will be a less quality disk.

Checkout www.speedlabs.org

Originally posted by FoxBat
Don’t judge your media too much by k-probe scans I’d say. If the discs work in the DVD-player(s) you want to play it in and you get consistent results in k-probe (no matter how bad), then you’re doing OK I guess.

I agree :slight_smile:

@gof, the standard for scans with Kprobe in this forum is; 4X speed, 8ECC, max unchecked. :cool:
There is no consistency in posted scans…

:slight_smile:

Originally posted by pinto2
[B]I agree :slight_smile:

@gof, the standard for scans with Kprobe in this forum is; 4X speed, 8ECC, max unchecked. :cool:
There is no consistency in posted scans…

:slight_smile: [/B]
I know the requested standard is 4x, which is why I was running and posting those. But the severity of the difference between a 4x scan and a 1x scan is what I’m worried about.

Basically, the information posted on this board for KProbe, and how to interpret the results, pretty much states that an acceptible scan shows <280 PI and <32 PO for a 4x scan. Anything else above that should be considered a bad burn, poor media, or both. ALL of my burns are in this category! If the conditions of <280<32 are not “real”, then that should be stated in the FAQ’s as it’s critical to interpreting media quality. To say that “There is no consistency in posted scans…” begs the question, why use KProbe at all?

I’m not (trying to be) argumentative, I’m trying to further my understanding and at the same time, find some media which would be considered “good”. Ritek is considered “good” be many here. I’m trying to hunt down some RICOHJPNR01 as a cross check, but I’m guessing that they might show the same behaviour.

Which leads to the question, HOW to use KProbe to quantitativly measure a good burn, and how much of KProbes results are from the burner inaccuracies and how much is the actual media.

Is the author of KProbe around? As I mentioned before, the ability to pull the raw error data shown in the graphs as a log output for stat analysis would help, as well as the ability to run KProbe via the command line (to permit multiple unattended runs).

Originally posted by gof
…“There is no consistency in posted scans…” begs the question, why use KProbe at all?
I’m not (trying to be) argumentative, I’m trying to further my understanding and at the same time, find some media which would be considered “good”. Ritek is considered “good” be many here. I’m trying to hunt down some RICOHJPNR01 as a cross check, but I’m guessing that they might show the same behaviour.
Which leads to the question, HOW to use KProbe to quantitativly measure a good burn, and how much of KProbes results are from the burner inaccuracies and how much is the actual media.

Media, media, media… Try different media before stating any judgement of the Kprobe or the drive. :cool:

I can recommend RICOHJPNR01. Se one of my scans here

And there is a mediaforum.

:cool:

BTW, I dont think you will see ‘Karr Wang’ around here…

Correct me if I’m wrong pinto but isn’t your drive an original 411S?
I’m starting to have a feeling the 811S doesn’t like Ricoh01 media for some reason. When the 411S was the more popular drive around I saw many great scans with it and the same media.

Perhaps OC-Freak or rdgrimes could look into it further becuase I’m stumped and out of ideas regarding the horrible scans showing up with Ricoh media lately… :confused:

Originally posted by Ssseth
Correct me if I’m wrong pinto but isn’t your drive an original 411S?
I’m starting to have a feeling the 811S doesn’t like Ricoh01 media for some reason. When the 411S was the more popular drive around I saw many great scans with it and the same media.

Howdy Ssseth

Yep, my drive is “original” 411… :iagree:

And the topic here is; “My 411s - Bad drive, bad media (Ritek +R), or weird KProbe?”

/of topic/ cached cold, at home this afternoon…/of topic/

Indeed. It must be the media I suppose. Just strange to see so many Ricoh discs burning badly.
Perhaps there are some “fake” Ricoh discs floating around out there. I know it wouldn’t be the first time that type of stuff happened.

[off topic]
Get well soon! Or maybe not… then you won’t post here as much. :stuck_out_tongue: Want to know the sad part? I post mostly at work! :smiley:
[/off topic]

I’ve a spindle of 25 Platinum disks, media ID RITEK R02. I’ve already burnt some 15 disks and no coasters yet. They all play well on my standalones. Mustek V520, but only if I do the bitset to DVD-ROM and a noname (well, Diginium) which, by the way, reads everything I throw at it (+R, -R, +RW, -RW).

As I said, they all play well and on some of them I’ve played them right through the end, extras, everything. However if I do Kprobe on these disks the results are horrendous, PIs consistently above 1000 and POs on the hundreds (all scanned at 4x8ecc max not checked). According to the guidelines posted on this site these disks have no chance of being readable, however they are? What gives?

I should add that at the same time I get very good Kprobe scans on other disks, e.g. RICOHJPNR01, CMC MAG F01, MCC 002, etc. Even Princo gives better results than the RITEK R02.

I’ve searched threads discussing Kprobe experiences with these disks and all are saying the same: terrible Kprobe scans but disks play well on standalones. So maybe the conclusion we can draw is that KProbe is not reliable scanning these particular disks?

I agree. This is my KProbe result on a Tevion DVD+R recorded @4x (Ritek R02).