MDS Vs BWA & SecuROM *NEW*

Have I stumbled across something groundbreaking or is this just the fabric of my imagination?

Like other users on the forums I have been able to backup (DVD’s aside), all versions of secuROM until my MotoGP3 derailed my plex premium. However twinpeak method has been hit and miss with MotoGP3 with my first backups getting to the actual race screen before being identified as a copy. More recently I have been able to make a backup (twinpeak’d using a-ray scanner and alcohol) that has passed authentication even in the race screen. Why would this copy work when others hadn’t?

I loaded a MDS and a BWA of the MotoGP3 disc into BWA Builder 5 and found that alcohol and blindwrite obviously read topology differently as the picture will show. The red line is the MDS file from alcohol and the green line is the BWA from blindwrite. Please note that this actual picture is the topology from Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 (SecuROM) not MotoGP3 but the differences were there on MotoGP3 disc. So my question is which program is “right” and if one particular program is “wrong” maybe this is why backups made with “wrong” program dont work.

ps. I also noticed that alcohol had one read error at the end of the disc that blindwrite did not detect, I wonder whether this error is another reason why some backups don’t authenticate.

Anyone with some technical knowhow that can set it straight for the record would be good. : )

If you look at the actual curve of the graph you will see both are the same. Exactly the same in fact.

The difference that you see is the data being displayed along the z axis of the screen. A kind of cheap 3D view of it.

So no brakthrough I am afraid.

i dont think so because I purposely turned “3D style chart” off in BWA builder.
when it IS on you can see the “Z-Axis” (see below). I agree that the curves are identical but if you look at the starting points you will see that the MDS file starts at about “41” where the BWA file starts at about “40”. I have turned on 3D in this screen shot. They are actually at different positions on the graph


Hi Pottz, I noticed that Motogp3 has an error at the end of the disc that Blindwrite doesn’t detect and moreover I can’t obtain .bwa file from mds (but it may be this fact depends on my old Blindwrite 4.5)…by the way error is present (at least according to Alcohol).

yes, could it be that this error is part of the securom new protection. If it is it might explain why backups with alcohol (twinpeak’d) work while backups with blindwrite (plex premium) do not because blindwrite doesn’t detect this error.

In my opinion BW5+ works in Automatic mode and detects the CD as a Securom and therefor doesn’t report this error.

My blindrite 4.5 doesn’t detect the error,r!co can you explain why backup of Securom 7 are more difficult? My Plextor premium backups are authenticated on some devices(Pioneer, Toshiba,Plextor), but other devices have problems (especially my Plextor 40ts), they have changed something but what?

Bwa of my backup is different from the original one.

R!Co, do you agree that alcohol and blindwrite produce topology’s that while may be the the same curve are actually situated at different points on the graph. Could this affect backups being authenticated?

Well…you can always compare BWA to MDS :slight_smile: as MDS is BWA+extra data. There even was a MDS to BWA tool.

If you use a .ccd image and a .bwa file with the twinpeaks method in A-Ray scanner you will see that it works!But if you use the twinpeaks method of Blindwrite it will fail!My personal opinion is that when it comes to Securomv7 bwa is as good as mds files.

Could someone please point me to that MDS to BWA tool?
Thanks in advance!

Every BWA Builder can convert mds to bwa.
BTW I guess R!Co meant the opposite, namely a function of a tool to inject the info of a BWA/B5T/B6T into a MDS. This tool is called Quickmount (Customize…->Tools->Inject DPM into MDS…)

For some DVD games (especially dual layer) I’m having trouble creating a working image with Alcohol. For these games I use BWA Builder to create a BWA file, and then use Quickmount to inject the BWA into my Alcohol image.
Kinda strange… BWA Builder is a lot faster than Alcohol’s DPM (at least with my NEC 3520) and I get much better results with BWA Builder.

I don’t see how with the one in blindwrite 4.5.7.
IIrc, 4.5.7 defeated securom every time before.

BWA Builder of BW 4.5.7
File/Convert MDS -> BWA
Even though the builder of version 4.5.7 can’t extract DVD topologies one can convert DVD topos with it - but the resulting BWA can’t be watched in old version 4.x builders.

The Builder refuses to load or convert the mds. It reports that it is no mds format. But thanks anyway.

The MDS file format has changed several times since it was created. BWA builder only supports the ‘old’ format.

What you need is a tool called DPMV. It’s never been released to the public however, i don’t know why.