Lousy TYG02 burns by SOHW-1693S KS0B

These are my first two burns of TYG02 and first burn of YUDEN000 T02 by SOHW-1693S (KS0B). Burns of discs from the same spindle of each MID by DW1640 and PX-712A are posted for comparison.

After the first disc of TYG02, I thought the second was gonna get better. But :a :a :a !

I heard that Lite-On needed a few discs to “learn”. Is this normal in the process of “learning” of Lite-On? To go downhill first, that is.

Verbatim Advanced AZO+ DVD-R 8x TYG02 Made in Japan
0-23942-43475-7 GG000110 1013 VE534A012345GG

First disc: so-so quality by TYG02 standard


Second disc: worse! and bad!




Now compare with TYG02 from the same spindle by PX-712A, not that excellent PIE graph in PX-712A but got Quality Score of 99 in DW1640.


This is TYG02 by DW1640. Not that pretty PIE in PX-712A but with Quality Score of 98 in DW1640.


Fujifilm DVD+R 8x YUDEN000 T02 Made in Japan
4-902520-252111 TG001159 0409 EB523A012345PG

First disc: better than TYG02. Got Quality Score of 98 in DW1640 but that dense PIF in both DW1640 and PX-712A doesn’t look great.


Compare with PX-712A, a bit better. DW1640 and SOHW-1693S like it more.


Compare with DW1640, even better. DW1640 and SOHW-1693S and also PX-712A love it.


My conclusion from this:

  • SOHW-1693S can read discs burned by DW1640 and PX-712A as good as the burner of the discs. But not the other way round. Discs burned by SOHW-1693S read good by SOHW-1693S but worse by DW1640 and PX-712A.

  • PX-712A is a good indicator for bad burns when reading. It is the only one that shows the second TYG02 disc is bad. Of course there are no POFs but by my standards and many people’s standards I believe I can call it bad. True that DW1640 is a good reader but in this case it is too good not to show that the disc is bad. And I don’t count that spike. Oh, I think PIE over 280 in PX-712A is enough to indicate that the burn is bad?

So, should I just go back to DW1640 or waste a few more discs for Lite-On to “learn”? Why didn’t my PX-712A and DW1640 need to learn? They gave me Quality Score of 99 and 98 right away the first TYG02 discs they ever burned! Discs from the same spindle.

Even a scan freak such as myself is lost with too much info.

First, you cannot compare scans from different burners, especially on different software.

I have no trouble with TYG02 on my Liteon 1693. I, and others, have found that TYG02 burned on BenQs are “weird” when scanned on Liteon and compared to scans on BenQ (I know I said you shouldn’t do so but we do anyhow). I am not sure what is going on so I don’t burn TYG02 on BenQs as I cannot trust the BenQ scans and the Liteon scans are much worse.

Assuming that there is not some problem with the media (there shouldn’t be), I would reset the learning curve on the Liteon and run a few more burns to learn the media. This will not waste media as even the “bad” burns above are very readable and should be just fine. You should also standardize your scanning to just one burner or you will drive yourself crazy with the occasional anomaly. I have found that Liteon drives are more precise and will work on USB as well as IDE. They also work with both Kprobe and CDSpeed.

BTW, I have found TY 8X +R (YUDEN000 T02) provides a better burn on almost all of my drives.

Hehe sorry for too much info chas0039. I thought I should give as much info as I could. Thanks for your input.

I still don’t know which burner to trust as a scanner that’s why I still scan every discs in all burners! I guess I was like you before you standardized your scanning. By the way, how did you come to your own conclusion which to use for scanning? Didn’t you scan in all burners like me? :smiley:

Yeah, we all know we shouldn’t compare scans from different burners. But I don’t think anyone here follow that. I think we all compare scans from different burners from time to time at least.

You say your 1693S burns TYG02 great. But from my little experience with it I think I should stay away from it. If I reset the EEPROM then it would go back to what it was before I fed it with TYG02 then it would re-learn TYG02 and give the same ugly results as above? Are you saying that it could learn “differently” and give great results?

And from above, I don’t see discs burned in BenQ scan weird in Lite-On. Maybe we have different experience but from what I found above:

  • Lite-On and Plextor love discs burned by BenQ
  • BenQ loves discs burned by Plextor
  • Neither BenQ nor Plextor like discs burned by Lite-On more than Lite-On itself
  • Lite-On itself doesn’t like discs burned by its own as much as discs burned by Plextor or BenQ

Personally, I’d say you are obsessing over the scans. None of them are especially bad. As long as the transfer rate scans are good and the PIFs are relatively low then you are good to go (IMHO). Do as Chas said and reset the learning curve on the drive. One bad disc can throw it off (and sometimes mine gets wierd for no apparent reason). After that, if you like the Benq better for TY burns then keep using it. I use my Pio108 for TY rather than my 1693s. Both are fine and well within spec but the Pio is better.

-Evan-

Thanks.

Did you see the second TYG02 scanned by PX-712A? Are you saying that’s a good burn? With PIE over 280 almost 1GB wide and PIF over 50 peaks at 50? Would you trust your data on that disc? I don’t. Or are you saying that the disc is a good burn because the Lite-On scan shows no problems even though Plextor scan shows something different?

I might try resetting the EEPROM if someone with real experience can confirm that it’s gonna help.

I wouldn’t be thrilled with the data on the second disc, no. And yes, I did not spend a lot of time looking at all of your graphs because there were a lot of them. That said, I don’t personally put much stock in the quality scans from Plextor drives. Lite-On QS and transfer rates from the variety of DVD-ROM drives I own have always served me well. If you choose to freak out over the Plextors results then by all means keep wasting time posting about it.

Chas has a 1693s and I also have a 1693s. I have reset the EEPROM and it has produced better scanning results when the discs burned aren’t looking as good as they can. This is the same advice Chas gave you before I even posted. What more “real experience” do you need? You can take my advice or ignore it, doesn’t matter to me one bit.

-Evan-

Yo-

Have to agree with both chas0039 and QuaiBoy on this one - the 1693s is the most reliable indicator of your Quality Scans IMO-

And as such - I personally do all my scans of all four burners only on my 1693s-

Mike

This is not theoretical. I have had many resets that allowed the burner to adopt a different strategy so re-learning could make a difference.

Either you Liteon is have a problem or your TYG02 is a problem. By resetting the EEPROM you eliminate the problem of a bad disc goofing the burn strategy. It is still possible you have bad media or a bad drive but you need to eliminate such a plethora of variables.

Just stick with Liteon scanning. I have never seen anyone who holds that any other drive is better so there is no reason to do so.

Now try some TY from the middle of the stack on the BenQ at 8X and scan on the Liteon.

Then burn a disc on the Liteon at 8X and scan on the Liteon.

If the burns are close, then the drive is fine. If the burns are bad then the odds are that the media is off.

Assuming the media is bad, try burns at 4X and see if these remainder of the discs are still usable.

Thanks, bigmike7. G@M3FR3@K said here this is a case of picky Plextor.

Thanks. In that case I think I will give it a try when I have chance. You have to understand one thing. Unlike many here who burn hundred of discs a month, I’ve only burned just over 50 +R/-R discs over the past 12 months. That is one disc per week. That’s why I didn’t just take the advice of resetting EEPROM likely. Because it’s gonna be my discs to waste in case of unsuccess. And it doesn’t appeal over the option of going back to burn with BenQ.

I’ve burned one MCC 003 disc before with this Lite-On and the scan was as good as those burned with BenQ. As for the TYG02 discs I have burned a few discs from the same spindle in Plextor and BenQ and there were great as I have posted some scans.

Yes, I think you are right.

Will do. Not any time soon though. Have to wait for unimportant data.

Cheers.

If you are willing to blow a buck on discs you can use CDSpeed to burn test discs.