Lots of C1 errors - Audio CD Copy

Hi everyone,

I have a problem with a high number of C1 errors for CDR’s used to make backup copies of my original audio CD’s. But when I run tests on the same branded CDR’s with only data files on them (eg MP3), the C1 errors are quite low and C2 is zero. Audio CDs were burnt with Feurio!; data CD by Nero Express.

Equipment used:

Writer: LTR-52327S
Firmware: QS06
Software: Feurio! v1.67 for copying audio CDs ; Nero Express for writing data files
Burn Speed: 4X (CLV) for audio Cds - Feurio! notes that the writer can’t burn at 1X and 2X ; 52X for data files (Nero)
CDR Media: Sony Supremas (by Acer Media) and Mitsubishi Sonic-Azo
Data written:

  1. Audio CD tracks of two different audio CD’s - both in perfect condition.
  2. Various data files from hard drive.
    CD Quality Test Software: KProbe2 v2.4.2

Here are the results: (KProbe2 doesn’t seem to recognize the maker of any the CDR’s, although Feurio! does)

  1. Audio CD Copy 1 : Mitsubishi Sonic-Azo (Feurio! at 4X)

  1. Audio CD Copy 2 : Sony (by Acer) (Feurio! 4X)

  1. Data CD 1 (Single movie file) : Mitsubishi Sonic-Azo (Nero Express 52X)

  1. Data CD 2 (Photo Files) : Acer Media (Nero Express 52X)

The results for the audio CDs really frustrate me. I know Mitsubishi isn’t the best out there, but there’re no TY or Mitsui here. I don’t know whether I’ve configured Feurio! wrongly or is it the burn speed. If anyone can help, it’s very much appreciated! Thanks in advance!

looks to me like feurio is your problem as your nero express ones are ok. try using nero to burn your audio cds i always use nero to burn my cds.

well, Feurio is better than Nero for audio working, but to determine the problem you obviously have to cross - compare:
you have to burn audio with Feurio at 52x and Nero at 4x and 52x.

Software shouldn’t make a difference to burning quality.
You can’t compare burning quality if you use different burning speeds.

Why are you trying to burn audio at 4x?
Most discs today are optimized for higher speeds.

hi minix, well i thought burning it at low speed ought to have better copies.

That was mostly true in the old days…

Most media today is designed to support high speeds, and the same can be said about burners: probably LiteOn cared to make a good firmware for the most used speeds, and didn’t care much about 4x.
The results for 4x are too bad.

I think that the best answer have to be found by yourself.
Make tests at different speeds, and you probably find one which is consistently better.

If you can post tests of Feurio at 52x, it would nice to confirm that the software doesn’t make a difference, something that sometimes doesn’t happen:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=22380#entry218351

What’s even worse: if your LiteOn shows very errors when testing a 52x burned disc, doesn’t mean that all reading devices will “see” the same burning quality. 52x might be too much for certain players. Medium speeds might be a better balance.
Different drives may have different “problems” when reading that disc. Your LiteOn drive may easily follow the track, while another drive have problems because of the way pits are created at high speed.

Those tests only show the quality seen by the LiteOn, which is a very good starting point to know the overall quality of the discs, but…

hi minix, took your advice and burned two copies of Album 1 - one at 32X and another at 48X (the Mits max at 48X) and seems you’re right - C1 and C2 errors decreased dramatically:

Album 1 at 32X (Feurio!)

Album 1 at 48X (Feurio!)

seems like speed makes a huge difference. (and i thought i was right burning at low speed :stuck_out_tongue: )

didn’t try on nero though since the problems solved. but the results above should indicate that speed, not software, is the cause of the problem.

so thanks again for your guidance!

Thanks for reporting !

4x would probably be OK for old MetalAzo discs, but for new media is too low. Or maybe your LiteOn hasn’t been well developed for 4x.
8x and 16x are probably much better than 4x.

Man, the C1 Ave difference of 0.05 doesn’t play any role.
And here’s how a good CDR should look like :

hi boskin, actually i was refering to the difference in c1 errors between my last post and my first post that started this thread – to compare the result of copying 2 audio cd’s at different speed.

nonetheless the result you posted was excellent – i wished i could get that. can’t buy any TY here. but i do have a question:

i checked the reviews of lite-on drives on cdfreaks and it seems the number of errors is almost always at the range i’m getting for the Mit; the TY is a bit lower but never at the range you posted. mind sharing how you achieve that result?

Sure. I use Yamaha F1E’s Audio Master Mode, just as it stated in the above post.