Little confused about sd2.8xxx

vbimport

#1

Excuse me probably i 'm not good …but i’m getting confused about setting my ccd 4.2.0.2 to back up C&C General. especially if i have or not to use AWS with my Liteon 24102b and Toshiba sd1712…
i read Futurprof nice and useful post but if is possible can i have the right settings…using my harware??Have i to check hide cdr media in all cases??
Reading the posts i realised i can get trought this protection but i always have the same tmp.error when i try to play…after a good install…is possible that an old LG DVD Rom can read ATIP???
Hope someone help…thank u very much!!


#2

use the sd2 profile without aws with ur liteon. u only need hide cd-r media on 0 and 1 sheep burners or if u are using the disc in a cd-writer. play the disc in ur dvd rom and u should be fine.


#3

Have you tried using weak sector amplification? Try this Profile for both the read and write process and report back. Please make sure that you enable Hide CDR Media when playing the back-up, even when playing from a normal CD-ROM.


#4

I managed to backup C&C Generals with Clone CD with no problems, using Clone CD v4.2.0.2 and my Liteon 24102b. I used the Game profile! :smiley:

Edited your quote from OliverFromFrance. Tired of reading use Alcohol instead of CloneCD. These posts will be deleted.


#5

This is from you (G@M3FR3@K) not me !!!

The problem with SafeDisc 2.80.010 discs is that Macrovision has added pre-gap information to the disc as part of the protection. CloneCD simply does not read (and thus also doesn’t write) this area of the disc. CloneCD can however emulated it just fine (as Alcohol also does) using the ‘emulate weak sectors’ option. When playing the back-up you always need to enable ‘Hide CDR Media’. If that doesn’t work then you can report back…

Ps. the reason why some back-ups work when the weak sectors are ‘just’ amplified is because some drives cannot read pre-gap information. So when you play the back-up from these drives the back-up will also work (when you have burned it with a 2-sheep burner of course). Lite-On writers can read pre-gap information so that’s where the problem lies. Although the drive is a 2-sheep recorder, it needs emulation. Well that’s the theory anyway…

I go on saying that if you don’t want to use ‘emulate weak sectors’ option to play your backup, Clonecd is not the best choice (until an update of this program) !


#6

Thank u guys 4 ur preciuos help
i ve cloned the game following ur suggestions!!
:slight_smile: hope someday can help u!!


#7

Originally posted by OlivierFromFran

I go on saying that if you don’t want to use ‘emulate weak sectors’ option to play your backup, Clonecd is not the best choice (until an update of this program) !

Hi Olivier. We know a couple of things for certain but I’ll have to talk around them a bit so that priviledged information is not totally compromised. CloneCD will not emulate any part of the backup unless you tick Emulate or AWS (AWS is not emulation per se but neither are the original sectors written, this is true for all AWS capable buring apps). If you tick “Ignore” it will not attempt to emulate the pre-gap for example; so, like DiscJuggler, CloneCD + two-sheep burner simply will or will not produce a backup. Alcohol, on the other hand will add emulated sectors whether you ask for it or not.

The point is that future versions of SD2 may check for these emulated sectors and reject the backup. It’s not a war stopper but it needs to be known and understood.


#8

I think that we might be able to understand each other :

As reported in this thread (if it is true) :
ALCOHOL and SAFEDISK 2.8 pregap data!

*ALCOHOL For the moment produces Safedisc 2.8 backups which works without the help of Alcohol or something else later .

  • CLONECD (if I’m not wrong (I Did only one test with FFA 2003 and someone also report in the thread same result)), produces Safedisc 2.8 which cannot work without Hide CDR Media also from the cd READER) .

Some other program are reported to be able to copy safedisc 2.8 (may be because of some luck !) .

Obviously this comments assumed that the writer is 2 sheeps (and so the weak sectors are burned properly) .

May be (For myself I don’t know) as you seems to known ALCOHOL safedisc 2.8 are not perfect and could be detected one day with a patch or something like that but I never heard anything saying that ALCOHOL backups don’t work anymore .

I really hope that CLONECD developper(S) will improve the program (also because of safedisc 2.9) .

Olivier


#9

Originally posted by OlivierFromFran
Some other program are reported to be able to copy safedisc 2.8 (may be because of some luck !) .

I don’t know the method in which DiscDump or CD Mate read the CD, whether the pre gap is made up or actually read, but the end result for me is that all Safedisc 2.8 backups work when created from these apps. Currently, Alcohol, Clone CD, CD Mate, DiscJuggler and DiscDump/Fireburner all produce a working Safedisc 2.8 backup as far as I am concerned. :slight_smile:


#10

Not all devices support reading and/or writing the pre-gap. The ability to ‘force’ a pre-gap read, among other things, is not coded into CloneCD. Reading the pre-gap is left entirely up to the hardware. Similarly, writing the pre-gap is left up to the hardware.

So the ability to produce a working SD2 backup in CloneCD depends entirely on the device(s) in terms of reading/writing specific areas of the disc. The fact that CloneCD appears to produce a less number of working backups (using Ignore) can be placed at the feet of emulation. If CloneCD emulated the pre-gap it would be as successful as, say, Alcohol across the board.


#11

I can imagine that writing this pre-gap data is going to be a big thing in the future. How does the Asus 5224a do with writing this?


#12

Fine. I can backup SD2.80.010 (Sims Unleashed) in DiscJuggler which is known to read and write in software; so a RAW reader/writer can do it. All the Lite-On/ASUS and the 1202 in my sig can do Unleashed in CloneCD. As stated before, Bulk has no trouble either.

Here’s the difference: CloneCD does not attempt, in software, to read or write the pre-gap. A reader/writer that can deal with the pre-gap on the hardware level will produce a working backup. Alcohol knows that the easiest way around the hardware issue is to just emulate the pre-gap anyway.


#13

I’m a little bit confused now.

You say that CloneCD does not read or write pre-gap data, so CloneCD images do never contain such data. But you also say that a successful backup with CloneCD depends on the hardware ability to write pre-gap data. So, where does the pre-gap data come from if CloneCD does not even ask the drive to read it?

Now, which of the following is true?

A: CloneCD can never create a good SD 2.80 backup, regardless of the burner used, because CloneCD does not care about pre-gap data.

B: CloneCD can only create a good SD 2.80 backup if you use a drive which can read and write pre-gap data. Although it does not let the drive read pre-gap data, it does let it (somehow) write such data.

(I’m not talking about emulated backups, but about backups made with the “ignore weak sectors” option.)

Lightbringer


#14

Hardware that can read and write the pre-gap will do so in CloneCD. The software does not look for this ability in a reader/writer. Like corrected and uncorrected sub-channel writes, some will do it anyway, some need to be forced by the software while some just can’t do it either way.


#15

Wonderful! I just hope my LTR-48246S can read and write the pre-gap data. I’ll verify that when I buy my next SD 2.80 game. :cool:

Lightbringer


#16

Originally posted by FutureProof
Hardware that can read and write the pre-gap will do so in CloneCD. The software does not look for this ability in a reader/writer. Like corrected and uncorrected sub-channel writes, some will do it anyway, some need to be forced by the software while some just can’t do it either way.

The pre-gab thing, is it in all safedisk 2.8 protections???
i have made a working bakup of “The sims unleashed”, with my sony. i think it is safedisk 2.8. :rolleyes:


#17

SafeDisc 2.80.010 and up use the pre-gap thingy I believe. It’s very well possible to create a working back-up. When you, for example, play the game from a drive that cannot read pre-gap, this extra protection is useless (since when the drive reports it cannot access the pre-gap area when the protection asks it to do so, this part is skipped since else even the original game wouldn’t play).


#18

Ah so so pre-gap is akin to ATIP. If I have to use my backup I play from a Reader to get around that. Would be nice if my ASUS 52 burnt pre-gap for my laptop…


#19

Originally posted by Sunork
Ah so so pre-gap is akin to ATIP.
No.


#20

Now correct me if i’m wrong, but the whole optical drive world seems to be moving towards combo cdwriter/DVD drives.

In this case the whole lot will be able to detect atip and pregap.

Snap up the old DVD only drives while you can guys! Before all your backupped games stop working!