Liteon at what cost?

vbimport

#1

I got a liteon CD-R drive and was really happy with it. Also got a dvd reader, another good buy.

Then looked at the forums here, Liteon looked like a drive with great features, and good write quality–sometimes great quality, on good media. So liking Liteon and figuring I’ll only use brand-name quality media I bought it. I was hoping to get the 451S because I understood they were replacing the 411S.

So I got one in February I think and I ended up with a 411S made in October 2003 (I understand a lot of bad drives were made that month) and I burned a few DATA DVD’s. Some + some -. The quality really sucks most of the time. TDK +R Ricoh, (I got up to 500 PO-- usually going up at the end) and even a TDK -R- Ritek G4 which had about 60 PO. I triend 3 princos burned at 2x & 4x–coasters. Friend gave me a Digital Matrix 4x yesterday–PO up to 900. Coaster reading on 163. My friend says they all work fine on his 401S.

Sick and tired of all the time spent scanning with K-Probe I decided that I don’t have to suffer to create some reliably written DVDs for my data. So I just ordered an NEC2500A today from Newegg for $82. I saw some great scans from it here–PO is like 5, 10, 20–not even on the best media. No crazy numbers like from the Liteons. I don’t need all this agony.

In fact I still like Liteon so much I almost bought an 812S retail for $94 I think, but after looking here in the forums once again for results from the 812S, and seeing that while there were some pretty nice scans there were a few terrible ones, and saw some argument on the best write quality, and one person admitted the NEC generally has much better write quality on more media, I figured why take the chance when you just can’t tell what you’d get from LiteOn. Maybe in a year or so they’ll get the act together on these burners…

I called LiteOn’s 800 # just now–tech support guy NEVER HEARD OF K-Probe and says that as long as the drive writes readable discs with the recommended media, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it and they can’t exchange it. What the HECK? Someone here mentioned similar issues, and he set it in and they sent him a new 451S instead.

I’d be embarrassed to even offer this drive on eBay–I’ll have to say “PICKY ABOUT MEDIA–VERIFY YOUR WRITE WITH K-PROBE-GO ON CDFREAKS.COM”.

What good is a drive with cool features if it doesn’t burn well even on brand name media? What good is fast writing if you have to spend an hour scanning and verify every disc you write to make sure it will be readable later? I got a DVD recorder to save time, not waste time.

We’ll see how the NEC does. I understand there is also unofficial support for it and bitsetting and other fun hacks that I might never try anyway… I suppose LiteOn is good for fooling around, buying expensive media and NEC for making good quality discs you can buy anywhere and that you don’t have to worry about.

Tek.

Here’s the Digital Matrix 4x that I wrote at 2x to be on the safe side. It scans nice at 2x but the data on it is unreadable on my 163 reader, and not easily on the 411–didn’t even let it try the whole thing. The Digital Matrix 4x works well for my friend on his 401S.


#2

The thing with Lite-On DVD writers is that they prefer the more expensive (better!) discs, like Verbatim, TY and Maxell. Ritek and Ricoh are good too. They will work very well with the discs I’ve mentioned above. You’ve been trying some pretty crappy discs by the looks of it, Get some better discs and try them on the Lite-On, you’ll be pleasantly surprised.


#3

No, not true–I actually bought some TDK +R and -R in jewel cases. The +R are Ricoh, and -R are Ritek G4. Also got some Maxells in jewel cases which were Ricoh. I only burned like 5 discs. I tried 3 Princos as an experiment, and that Digital Matrix. The Digital Matrix DOES NOT WORK WELL FOR MY FRIEND I FOUND OUT TODAY (on his 401S) It is truely crap. I’ll try some on the NEC2500A I will get this week to see what happens. Here are some scans:

Tek.

Ricoh-Maxell 2.4x - this was the BEST I GOT. Not bad at all but not what you see on other drives sometimes. If I got this consistenly I would be happy and shut up.



#4

might also want to try either FS0F firmware or up it to @811 either HSOE or HS0P


#5

This is my last disc yesterday–TDK +R (Ricoh). 4x written at 2.4x. About the same as I got before at 4x.

This upwards curve was usual on most of my burns, and 500 is far beyond acceptable. (280 is the limit). In fact it scanned better on the 163!!! No excuse for this on Ricoh media.



#6

Here’s the TDK -R which is a Ritek G4. This is supposed to be a great quality media for the LiteON. Not a bad scan on the LiteON but nowhere near the nice clean scans from good writes on other writers like the NEC. The scan on the 163 of this was horrible. Scans from quality writers are around 10-20. Not 100.



#7

Here’s the same disc above scanned on the 163, which usually has given me better or more even scans than the 411S. Keep in mind that the drive that writes the disc should normally do a much better scan than another drive. Not so with the 411S. Seems it doesn’t write too great, and doesn’t read great either… :frowning:

900 is crazy. What does this mean that later I won’t be able to read discs on other drives? Not too appealing.

We’ll see what happens with the NEC2500A and scans from it on the 163 and the 411S (which I hope to get exchanged by LiteON if I get someone there to go for it.). Maybe if I create a page on my website about this they will be more interested in exchanging it. So far I got nowhere on the phone.

Tek.



#8

i know for g04 on my 411 fs0f is the best. here a ritek g03 1x disc written with a speedhacked firmware at 4x

here is the post


#9

Originally posted by cnlson
might also want to try either FS0F firmware or up it to @811 either HSOE or HS0P

Thanks for the input. Yeah I read about FS0F. I have the latest on it. I figure if it’s so bad with the latest what’s the chance of a big improvement with an older version. Also thought of doing the 811 hack, but I really don’t want to screw it up–then I can’t even get it exchanged–and again what’s the chance of an improvement if the drive doesn’t work well to begin with? It’s an October 2003 drive which I read here many of them were bad. Really don’t want to experiment with discs that cost $1.00 to $2.00 each. Not only money but a lot of time to test. I don’t need the headaches.

Tek.

Here’s another Ricoh TDK +R. Nothing to be happy about. The PO is pretty good though.



#10

also scanning with a dvdrom is useless since you cannot set the read speed.

also even reading at 4x is not completely correct. you should check at 1x for total accuracy 4x is just done to save time.

the most important thing about the discs is not how they scan but if they will play. if they play in your player then the scans don’t mean anything.

this isn’t the quest for the perfect burn… it is the quest for a playable disc.

personally i have never had a disc skip due to pi errors (since they are correctable) po errors can cause issues occasionally but i would say that 95% of my burns are good. i actually could have gotten a 2500a for 69.99 recently at officemax (after rebate) but as i already have 2 good burners (411s and 811s) i didn’t bother. i bought a 50 pk of cmc mag f01 discs for $19.99 instead.

here is a scan of one of those discs. and since you asked here is what a difference in firmware will mean for scanning results. this disc was written in my 811s @4x and scanned in both drives. look at the difference in reported errors. i would really suggest you go back to fs0f it makes a big difference.


#11

Originally posted by cnlson
[B]i know for g04 on my 411 fs0f is the best. here a ritek g03 1x disc written with a speedhacked firmware at 4x

here is the post [/B]

Thanks for the thread–yeah it really does show that the LiteON does have some nice results. This is why I bought it–I did see some great scans. The 451 is better it appears.

But I don’t know if the drives which were hacked to 811 did better than then they were 411 or much better. Obviously some of the units out there are doing better than others. They are not consistent. At first I thought it’s the media, but there is just too much variation. I’ll know for sure what the deal is when I get the NEC this week.

I don’t even know how to do the hack properly. But is it worth the risk–then I really can’t get it exchanged…

Tek.


#12

cnlson–I’m mostly interested in burning data not movies. I want to be positive I won’t have any trouble reading it later on… I found that on the high error discs I COULD NOT READ THE DATA BACK!!!

Tek.


#13

I will admit that based on what I see in these forums, the earlier generation of LiteOn drives do suffer from variability a lot. I’ve seen people get great burns on them and people who were not so lucky and got bad burns.

But in all fairness to LiteOn, I think that they have gotten their act mostly together, and it seems that the results that is being seen with the newer drives after that initial generation tend to be better and less variable in nature. So they had a false start; many companies entering a new market do. That doesn’t mean that they should be avoided all together. These older drives are no longer being produced, and the ones being sold are the ones at the bottom of the inventory that retailers are clearing out.

And as I’ve said many times before, the NEC is indeed a good drive, if your needs fit a certain narrow definition. But some people want drives that they can run KProbe on (if anything, for the sake of curiosity and experimentation), some people wand a drive that does well with CD burning. Some want a drive that isn’t so picky about reading. There are reasons for picking LiteOn, and just because it doesn’t rank #1 on the write quality scale doesn’t mean they should be avoided alltogether no matter what (and certainly not with that sense of absoluteness that you carry in your tone).

I am a happy LiteOn owner. Perhaps it’s because I’ve been fortunate and got a good one. Whatever the case, I get burns that rival those of NEC owners. But then you say, “yours is a 451, not a 411!” So? The 411 isn’t even being made any more, so what does it matter now? If the current generation is doing better, that’s all that really matters.


#14

Originally posted by TekWiz
[B]cnlson–I’m mostly interested in burning data not movies. I want to be positive I won’t have any trouble reading it later on… I found that on the high error discs I COULD NOT READ THE DATA BACK!!!

Tek. [/B]

ok i understand what you saying but dvd video is data as well and good results are good results. since you mention riteks as good media i will tell you that while i used to agree i have found as others have that the quality has changed for the worse.

my tdk +r are ricohjpnr01 which are also ritek and quality varies from batch to batch.

as far as checking true readability i would try a different software like dvdinfopro or nero cd/dvd speed as they are going to show whether or not a block can be read not some arbitrary error level which will not tell you if the data can be read or not.


#15

Originally posted by TekWiz
[B]Thanks for the thread–yeah it really does show that the LiteON does have some nice results.

snip

But I don’t know if the drives which were hacked to 811 did better than then they were 411 or much better.

snip

I don’t even know how to do the hack properly. But is it worth the risk–then I really can’t get it exchanged…

Tek. [/B]

yep liteon makes a good drive.

most said they did better but i would say that most likely the ones that didn’t like it better reverted their drive.

if you follow the instructions and correctly do all the eeprom backups as suggested you should have no problem putting the drive back the way it was.

from reading what you wrote about some of the discs being readable and some not i would suggest that media is more likely the problem. drives rarely write intermittantly bad they are either bad or not.


#16

While relatively safe (if done properly the first time) please be aware that no over-clock is totally safe.
I don’t want anyone getting the wrong impression that it is 100% foolproof (pun intended).


#17

Just wanted to say my 411 did his job about alright. Not really good but nothing to really complain @ this price (9 months ago, rememeber).

Got it to 811 and man, it rocks, period !
It is not perfect but compared to what it was (a 411Ã I’d say the mod is definitely worth trying.
My 2 cents…