LG BH16NS40 vs Pioneer BDR-2209 - which to keep?

vbimport

#124

I just ordered a LG WH16NS40. Bild says it’s good for reading, as well as ripping blurays. I’d also be using it for casual dvd writting backup discs for my windows OS (so i don’t have to use usb thumdrive all the time).

My only concern is, do i need anydvd, eacto to bypass riplock if any ? Or am i okay without those apps ?

At minimum i thought i’d use makemkv to rip my bd collection to digital format e.g. h264 to playback from my local NAS. But not sure if this LG WH16NS40 is riplocked or not.

Hope i didn’t make the wrong choice here ;_; any encouragement ?


#125

AnyDVD is rather a standalone helper application, and does not absolutely require anything else to just get an image of a given disc. Same goes for using MakeMKV, or using DVDFab. Each one has pros and cons based on feature set, and folks like Kerry56 occasionally do comparisons (such as http://club.myce.com/f32/free-decryption-programs-334863/ and http://club.myce.com/f62/how-back-up-bluray-cheap-painless-336474/) of some programs to give you a little idea of what to expect when it comes to deciding which one (or which combination) of tools you want to use. And there are a few older threads folks have started (example: http://club.myce.com/f88/what-software-do-you-use-anydvd-hd-rip-dvd-blu-ray-hard-drive-321217/) that cover similar topics and have a bit of good info, if you’re willing to wade through the discussions. Most of the information is still applicable, from my understanding.

As far as riplock, no one has any complaints about the speed of the LG drives, really. You might want to try the free tools (or free versions of each tool) first to see if there’s a quirk with your setup, and see if it meets your needs. The folks earlier in this thread mention having to use a workaround to get AnyDVD to rip at full speed; if you don’t mind that, then you shouldn’t have many issues.

As hinted at by the discussions you may have already seen, your main issue may come in the form of programs needing to be updated to handle new titles; however, it’s no issue to try another program if your preferred program doesn’t work. Beyond that, coming here to get advice won’t hurt, either.

Just to round out the list of recommendations: burning of disc images (once you make them) can be accomplished easily with ImgBurn. It can be used as a general disc burning tool to write files from your HDD, create audio CDs, create images of NON-protected discs, etc…basically, beyond the name implying it is for disc images only, it’s an all-around great tool to have paired with any of the ripping tools mentioned above. (It’s even a nice tool for troubleshooting, as the verbose output log it provides frequently helps us out when you can’t get a successful burn or may even help identify other issues related to your optical drives.)


#126

Hello. I read all the pages. But I find it hard to interpret the graphs.

I’m torn between LG and Pioneer. What recording with better quality? I only need to backup. I need a good recording.

I always use Verbatim discs.

Thanks and great job!

P.d: I feel my limited English, I hope you understand me well


#127

[QUOTE=Bambu;2738877]Hello. I read all the pages. But I find it hard to interpret the graphs.

I’m torn between LG and Pioneer. What recording with better quality? I only need to backup. I need a good recording.

I always use Verbatim discs.

Thanks and great job!

P.d: I feel my limited English, I hope you understand me well[/QUOTE]

So I know you said ‘you always use Verbatim’, but I’m not sure if you’re more interested in BD-R or DVD+R quality.
DVD+R SL MCC-004 should do well with anything.
DVD+R DL MKM-001/MKM-003 is very finicky these days. I’m not sure which brand-new drive these days can write to them without issue.
BD-R SL VERBATIMe - this is the most common, as far as I can tell, Verbatim media. There was an excellent deal from Newegg on it for about $19 a few weeks ago. According to my results (LG BH16NS40, Pioneer BDR-209M, Pioneer BDR-208M) the Pioneers should be better drives, and the slightly older Pioneer 208M better than the 209M. The LG is still a solid option if you can’t get the Pioneers, and the newer Pioneer is still a solid option if you can’t get the older one (which I’m sure is difficult to find these days).

Also, these results are about six months old now. I don’t know if the chemical composition of VERBATIMe has changed, or if new firmwares have been released for either the LG or Pioneer drives - I’ve been burning with them without issue for a while, and the tests are time consuming and expensive to keep on doing all the time.


#128

Oh, and if you found it difficult to interpret the graphs - the first few of each post are transfer rate tests. With single-layer media being read at the highest speed the drive is capable of, this should ideally be just a line with a positive slope without any serious dips (which indicates either a less-than-capable drive or poor media, depending on the pattern that emerges).
So this would be bad:


But this would be OK:

The last graph is a Disc Quality Scan, which few of the newer drives can do properly nowadays (at least, that is my understanding). This is in some sense a measurement of how good the drive is as well as of how good the media is and how well its been burnt, so lots of comparison is necessary to draw any kinds of conclusion. Many think the the DQS is less important than the Transfer Rate graphs (which tell you, uh, ultimately, whether the disc is going to be read well or not, minutiae aside). But my understanding is that it’s a more granular measure of disc quality, so I do it.
There are generally two numbers that we care about - the average number of Parity Inner Errors (PIE), which can be corrected using ECC, and the maximum number of Parity Inner Failures (PIF), which cannot.
More information can be found on pages 22 and 23 of the OptiDriveControl manual.
http://www.optidrivecontrol.com/files/OptiDriveControl.pdf
It doesn’t explain why we care about jitter, the percentage numbers to the right, I don’t feel confident enough that I remember it very well. But in any case, here’s the best result for the VERBATIMe burnt at 4x with the Pioneer 208 Drive:

(For BD, LDC and BIS are like PIE and PIF for DVDs.)
Hopefully this is helpful.


#129

Thank you very much for your help, perfect explanation ^^.

I’ll use it for recording only Bluray, but if you tell me that both brands are good and there is little difference between them, I’ll take that LG is the brand I’ve always used recorders.

Also LG is retail and pioneer is oem, I prefer retail.

Thanks again, great job!


#130

Tanks a lot bilditup1 for all this work ! :clap:
A lot of work, I guess…

Really, really useful for me, as I am planning to buy a bluray burner, and hesitated between these two models.

Do you know if there are some tests with the LG BH16NS40 and DVD-R (minus R) Verbatim media ?


#133

[QUOTE=alexandropov;2740869]Tanks a lot bilditup1 for all this work ! :clap:
A lot of work, I guess…

Really, really useful for me, as I am planning to buy a bluray burner, and hesitated between these two models.
[/QUOTE]

You’re welcome!

Do you know if there are some tests with the LG BH16NS40 and DVD-R (minus R) Verbatim media ?

No clue, I’ve never really used -R media at all.

[Removed part of post referencing spam message. -Albert]


#134

[Removed a bit of spam]


#136

Hello, I don’t know if anyone is still watching this thread? if you are, please help :slight_smile:

I need to get a new drive, and those 2 are the only possibilities available around here. (it’s called BDR-209EBK here but it’s the same one right?)

Usages (in order from most frequent to less): CD Ripping, DVD ripping, some blu-ray ripping, some dvd-burning (and a blu-ray burning every 5 years or so…).

Any difference in quality when ripping? (one or the other has more problems with slightly scratched cds/dvds for example?)

Everytime I find something that makes one more appealing, there’s a little issue that seems to arise and makes the one more appealing… the LG seems overall less trouble for ripping dvd/blu-rays than the pioneer and its auto-quiet mode… but then it seems like the LG has issues when ripping audio cds with EAC… and there is no working tool to disable auto-quiet on this particular Pioneer version…

…so I’m totally torn and clueless :doh:

Thanks for your input!


#137

[QUOTE=Lebowsky;2761004]Hello, I don’t know if anyone is still watching this thread? if you are, please help :slight_smile:

I need to get a new drive, and those 2 are the only possibilities available around here. (it’s called BDR-209EBK here but it’s the same one right?)

Usages (in order from most frequent to less): CD Ripping, DVD ripping, some blu-ray ripping, some dvd-burning (and a blu-ray burning every 5 years or so…).

Any difference in quality when ripping? (one or the other has more problems with slightly scratched cds/dvds for example?)

Everytime I find something that makes one more appealing, there’s a little issue that seems to arise and makes the one more appealing… the LG seems overall less trouble for ripping dvd/blu-rays than the pioneer and its auto-quiet mode… but then it seems like the LG has issues when ripping audio cds with EAC… and there is no working tool to disable auto-quiet on this particular Pioneer version…

…so I’m totally torn and clueless :doh:

Thanks for your input![/QUOTE]

My priority when testing these drives was obviously burn quality. I have not used them for ripping of damaged discs or for CD-ripping in general, but that said, if CD ripping really is your top priority and the LG ‘has issues’ with it, then I think you’ve answered your question. Especially if BD ripping speed is way down your list of concerns and BD burning happens once in a blue moon.

The 209EBK is the same drive as the BDR-2209 mechanically but has OEM firmware. I think by now there may be a utility for the 2209 to shut off the auto-quiet feature, but like you say, it won’t work for the DBK/EBK versions.


#138

[QUOTE=bilditup1;2761080]The 209EBK is the same drive as the BDR-2209 mechanically but has OEM firmware. I think by now there may be a utility for the 2209 to shut off the auto-quiet feature, but like you say, it won’t work for the DBK/EBK versions.[/QUOTE]

BDR-2209 and BDR-209EBK/UBK are identical (kernel ID60). Their hardware and firmware are identical. Both are part of the BDR-209M family of BDXL drives and can also burn DVD-RAM discs. Therefore the BDR-2209 drive utility (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Computer/BDR-2209/Pioneer%20BDR-2209%20Windows%20Drive%20Utility.zip) works with BDR-209EBK drives too, since it is built to work with ID60 drives.

BDR-209DBK is an ordinary BDR-209 drive (not a BDR-209M), which doesn’t have BDXL support and which also lacks DVD-RAM writing abilities (that’s what the letter D in the model number means) compared to the regular BDR-209 drives (those without a D in the model number).


#139

[QUOTE=cvs;2761099]BDR-2209 and BDR-209EBK/UBK are identical (kernel ID60). Their hardware and firmware are identical. Both are part of the BDR-209M family of BDXL drives and can also burn DVD-RAM discs. Therefore the BDR-2209 drive utility (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Computer/BDR-2209/Pioneer%20BDR-2209%20Windows%20Drive%20Utility.zip) works with BDR-209EBK drives too, since it is built to work with ID60 drives.

BDR-209DBK is an ordinary BDR-209 drive (not a BDR-209M), which doesn’t have BDXL support and which also lacks DVD-RAM writing abilities (that’s what the letter D in the model number means) compared to the regular BDR-209 drives (those without a D in the model number).[/QUOTE]

Thanks for clarifying, cvs. Sorry for spreading misinformation.


#140

Hi,
I really appreciate the effort put into this comparison. As I followed this thread in general it seems that Pioneer BDR-209E is on par with LG BH16NS40 and as I read in other thread Pioneer BDR-S09XLT is better than BDR-209E because there are more options to set with the utility. Currently I am considering these 3 mentioned internal drives and external drive from Samsung (Samsung SE-506CB/ Samsung SE-506BB) because no other external BD burners are being sold in the near area excluding Asus. My intended use for the drive is (ordered from highest priority):

  1. ripping encrypted BD-ROMs
  2. playing/reading DVD-ROMs (no ripping)
  3. burning BD M-DISCs
  4. burning to any other BD/DVD/CD media
  5. playing/reading CD-ROMs
    Most of the time I will be just reading BD/DVD-ROMs so more speed is better and preferred especially for BDs. Anyway if I burn something I want it to be as close to the best quality as I can get so the burned media will last “forever” because I burn only for archiving purposes. To make it even more difficult I can sacrifice little bit of BD reading speed for the drive to be external and that’s why Samsung’s external drives are also on the list. So which one to choose? If there is other drive that would better fit my usage pattern feel free to append the list and comment.
    GG

#141

"Frankly, based on my experience with both drives (I almost exclusively burn BD-R discs nowadays, so my conclusions are only based on this type of media) if you compare like with like, I would be very surprised if the LG can beat the Pioneer, even though the BDR-209M burn quality is in my experience not as good as its 207M/208M predecessors … my BH16NS40 only seems to be able to beat my Pioneer drives on BD-R media based on the CMCMAG BA5 MIDs, which it seems to like much more than the Pioneer drives. For all the other media I tried, my Pioneer drives generally beat the LG hands down…[/QUOTE]

Stupid newbie question: I was considering buying a BDR-209DBK what is the difference between that and the BDR-209M you mention, and would I be better buying the older BDR-208 or 207?


#142

Why don’t you keep both?
Both are good disc drives.

Somehow, older disc drives such as the S182 from 2006 perform better on audio CD damage.

They complete each other.
Or have you compared the damage handling ability?