LG BH16NS40 vs Pioneer BDR-2209 - which to keep?

vbimport

#64

Media: BD-R VERBATIMe
Media Mfr: Verbatim/MCC/MKM
Brand: Verbatim 6x BD-R 3pk Jewel Cases
Model: 96910 (jewel); 97341 (3pk box)
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Finally, a stellar result! GGC-H20L can only read at 6x but still - rejoice!


#65

Media: BD-R VERBATIMe
Media Mfr: Verbatim/MCC/MKM
Brand: Verbatim 6x BD-R 3pk Jewel Cases
Model: 96910 (jewel); 97341 (3pk box)
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! Hot damn!


#66

Media: BD-R INFOMER40
Media Mfr: Infomedia
Brand: Melody 6x 50pk Inkjet Printable
Model: BDR25P0506US
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

The best BD result yet for this drive, and a stellar one. Moreover, this media is a genuine bargain, at less than 50 cents a disc - cheaper than any other BD media tested. No importing from Europe or Japan required. Hurray!


#67

Media: BD-R INFOMER40
Media Mfr: Infomedia
Brand: Melody 6x 50pk Inkjet Printable
Model: BDR25P0506US
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

A stellar if slightly worse result than the LG, surprisingly, with somewhat higher LDC and BIS values. The LG must really like this media to have done as well as it did.

Still, this is a solid burn, if not as good as the excellent VERBATIMe burn with this drive.


#68

Media: BD-R INFOMER40
Media Mfr: Infomedia
Brand: Melody 6x 50pk Inkjet Printable
Model: BDR25P0506US
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

A better result, unsurprisingly, than the BDR-209M. The lowest DC jitter, but otherwise tied with the LG for this cheap yet quality media. In fact, the LG had one fewer BIS error! Still, should solidify these Infomedia discs as the go-to for the budget conscious - at least with these drives - who can’t really shell out for Panasonics.


#69

Media: BD-R INFOMER40
Media Mfr: Infomedia
Brand: Melody 6x 50pk Inkjet Printable
Model: BDR25P0506US
Drive: ASUS / LiteON iHBS112
Speed: 4x

Since these discs are so cheap, I thought to myself, lemme see what the older iHBS112 drive does with it.

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B] (burning drive)

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Solid results even with this older drive. Hurray!


#70

I never did this trt at burn time - just did now. As with the Ritek BR3 with this exact combination of writer and reader, significant deterioration in the ability of the drive to read the disc was found:

That’s a strike against this media, naturally, but also a strike against the Pioneer BDR-209M in terms of being a viable drive for writing to crappy media successfully. The media clearly takes more of the blame for this, and I don’t know how badly the discs burnt by the other drives have deteriorated, so it’s hard to say anything about how ‘good’ the drive is in comparison to others. I may have to re-do the scans in a few weeks and see what happens. Interesting finds, I guess, thanks to mistakes :slight_smile:


#71

What conclusions can we draw from all this testing?

I think the LG BH16NS40 is a better drive than its generally thought of. Not for BD-burning, but as a general purpose drive for burning CDs and DVDs and ripping BDs, since it doesn’t have the ‘partial riplock’ that the Pioneer drive suffers from. It had the best result of any drive for DVD+R SL burns, at less than 1 PIE with the MCC-004s. Plain old single-layer DVD+Rs are more necessary than people think, given the dearth of BD drives on most workstations and computers, and the relative expense of usable DL media. The also gave the very best result for any CD burn, with <1 C1 error with the plain Verbatim discs. Moreover, with quality media like INFOMER40 or VERBATIMe - there are others, I’m sure - it can even be used as a viable BD burner.
Given the low cost of the OEM flavor of the drive - $60 most of the time - it might even make sense to snap one up and use it as a secondary or backup, especially if BD ripping via AnyDVD + eac3to is a common activity. If not, I suppose it makes more sense to pick up a cheap DVDRW (what’s the best one of those these days? because god knows I’m not going to do all this testing all over again lololololol).

As for the Pioneers - they mostly did better with questionable media like the PHILIPR04s, the JVCs, and the RITEKBR3s, than the LG did. Between the two, the slightly older BDR-208M did better, and sometimes much better, than the newer BDR-209M, especially with the very same crappy media. (The 209M, however, did slightly better than the 208M with the much-maligned PHILIPR04s.)
The difference between the two isn’t very wide, however, when using quality BD media - though the 208M did get the absolute best BD burn scan of all drive-media combinations in the VERBATIMe burn. Still, even though the 209M appears to be a slightly inferior drive, I wouldn’t feel too off-put if I couldn’t get the 208, or if the 208 were much more expensive. With coupons/deals, the 209 can be had for $70, including retail Bluray software, whereas I haven’t been able to find the 208M for less than $100, and only from smaller dealers. And you could forget about getting the superior European flavor of the drive for less than $150. That’s just not worth it.
The Pioneers’ DVD and CD performance were both fine, though both were outshone by the LG at points. The BDR-208M did an OK, if not great, job with the otherwise atrocious Moser Baer discs, so it may be better at dealing with questionable DVD media as well. The 209M at least showed that it could better deal with crappy CDs, so hopefully there’s some kind of trend here. Still - honestly, if you’re not already invested in crappy media, the advantage of the Pioneer drives is limited to slightly better BD burns. If you can only afford one drive and can commit to buying good media in bulk, I think the LG makes more sense. If you like sampling different medias and not putting all your eggs in one basket, or if you can’t afford to buy in bulk, the Pioneers are unquestionably the better bet. Either way, you’ll end up with a solid piece of equipment.


I’m not done testing just yet. I ordered some Panasonic BD-Rs to see just how good they really are ($20 off thanks to eBay bucks) and am still waiting for those to come in. I also ordered some of Millenniata’s MDISC BD-Rs to see if they live up to the hype. I don’t have the BDR-209M anymore, but could probably reorder it just for reviewing purposes, thanks to Newegg’s generous return policy for Premier members. Probably wouldn’t do that just for two discs though.

If anybody has suggestions on further discs to test - CD, DVD, BD, whatever - especially cheap ones, please send them my way. Actually, I’m looking forward to any feedback, of any kind, assuming anybody is still reading this :stuck_out_tongue:

Good night, and May the Fourth Be With You :smiley:


#72

[QUOTE=blackened2687;2726696][B]bilditup1[/B], your tests are very actual and useful. Thank you![/QUOTE]

So of course now I finally check my email and find that somebody replied to my thread, right before I posted results.

I’m glad you find this useful blackened2687! That’s one, at least!


#73

Now I’m even more convinced that I need to find BH/WH14/16NS40 drive and also need to find one more BDR-208D/208M/S08. :slight_smile: It’s hard as hell, though.


#74

[QUOTE=bilditup1;2726720]
I’m glad you find this useful blackened2687! That’s one, at least![/QUOTE]

Make that two at least … :slight_smile:

I’m glad that you managed to find a 208M. I am even less impressed now with my BDR-S09XLT (see my 6x BD-R Digistor result with the new firmware in the 209M results thread)… I was expecting some improvement for this TDK MID with the new firmware, but nothing …


#75

It appears that the LG is much slower at ripping DVDs than the Pioneer. The plot thickens


#76

[QUOTE=cvs;2726766]Make that two at least … :slight_smile:

I’m glad that you managed to find a 208M.
[/QUOTE]

Ha, great! Thanks!

[QUOTE=cvs;2726766]
I am even less impressed now with my BDR-S09XLT (see my 6x BD-R Digistor result with the new firmware in the 209M results thread)… I was expecting some improvement for this TDK MID with the new firmware, but nothing …[/QUOTE]

Oof. I wonder what happened there…


#77

One more discovery btw: the Pioneer appears to be faster than the LG at ripping DVDs, at least just now. 8x vs 12x with the single layer discs I was dealing with.


#78

[QUOTE=bilditup1;2726719][…]I think the LG BH16NS40 is a better drive than its generally thought of. Not for BD-burning, but as a general purpose drive for burning CDs and DVDs and ripping BDs, since it doesn’t have the ‘partial riplock’ that the Pioneer drive suffers from.[/QUOTE]
What ‘partial riplock’ are you talking about? I see the contrary on your graphs; the Pioneer is faster than the rest, not only with DVDs, but also with BD-Rs; reaching up to 11.85x speed at the end with many BD-Rs. Just I’ve returned a LG BE14NU40 and now I’m going to return a rebadged LG BH16NS48 for their poor rip speeds and I think (one of my goals is to rip original BR movies to hard disk at the max speed) I’m going to order a BDR-S09XLT or a BDR-208EBK (BDR-S08XLT is out of stock in Europe).

Also could you make a transfer rate test of a DL Blu-ray original movie (protected with AACS) with the Pioneer?

Does the Pioneer support M-Disc DVD WRITING (not only reading)? M-Disc BR reading/writing is supported by all modern writers, but DVD writing NOT.

Thanks


#79

When using AnyDVD or AnyDVD + external program (Explorer, Directory Opus, eac3to, whatever) to rip a protected BD, the drive takes an hour to copy a disc. If you’re using AnyDVD’s ripper directly (I use eac3to in order to kill a few birds with one stone) then you could start the extraction, stop it right after, and then restart it in order to ‘break’ the ripping limit. Other software apparently doesn’t suffer from this limitation; see more here and in the post and links here.
For me, this is a major issue. For others, maybe not.


#80

Nowhere on the Pioneer packaging for either the 208 or 209 indicates that it’s compatible with M-DISC DVD+Rs - don’t have any more info than that; sorry.


#81

Thank you for your fast replies.

Both BE14NU40 and BH16NS48 rip a 45GB movie in 39m using AnyDVD (DL BR discs protected with AACS), although AnyDVD + ImgBurn combination is faster: in 31m. However, transfer rate tests only reached up to 6.2x max speed at the half of the disc (see my graphs). When I saw the Pioneer graphs reaching the 12x speed I was so excited. What a shame.

I’ve read both threads mentioned before, and I’ve 2 questions please:

  • Do both Pioneers, 208 and 209, have that riplock? If so, is this riplock removable from the 208 using MCSE? (I’ve already read that the 209 is not supported by MCSE).
  • If I use the “trick” of starting and then stopping AnyDVD, does the Pioneer reach the 12x speed when reading these discs?

Thank you again, it’s very much appreciated.


#82

[QUOTE=HiddenUser;2727104]Thank you for your fast replies.

Both BE14NU40 and BH16NS48 rip a 45GB movie in 39m using AnyDVD (DL BR discs protected with AACS), although AnyDVD + ImgBurn combination is faster: in 31m. However, transfer rate tests only reached up to 6.2x max speed at the half of the disc (see my graphs). When I saw the Pioneer graphs reaching the 12x speed I was so excited. What a shame.

I’ve read both threads mentioned before, and I’ve 2 questions please:

  • Do both Pioneers, 208 and 209, have that riplock? If so, is this riplock removable from the 208 using MCSE? (I’ve already read that the 209 is not supported by MCSE).
  • If I use the “trick” of starting and then stopping AnyDVD, does the Pioneer reach the 12x speed when reading these discs?

Thank you again, it’s very much appreciated.[/QUOTE]

MCSE def doesn’t support 209. I don’t know about 208 but it’s a fairly new drive and released after the latest update to MCSE so probably not. I’m not an expert in that software though.

I have the WH16NS40 flashed to BH16NS40 1.03. When I rip using AnyDVD + eac3to, I am only ripping/demuxing (at once) the main movie file/files and not any extras. I haven’t done a full-on TRT with either drive so I don’t know what ‘x’ is exactly but usually it’s around 20-25 mins for a DL movie and like 9-10 for SL. For a normal 2hr movie, that appears to be around 6x for DL (just using, ya know, division).

That said, I think I’ve found a way around the ‘riplock’, at least with the 208M. Pioneer released a utility for the drive that has an option in it to turn off quiet mode. Once this is selected, it rips just as fast as my LG does (but not faster, I don’t think). It says it’s specifically for the BDR2208, so I don’t know if this will work with any other Pioneer drive, and I don’t see a similar utility released for the BDR2209 at their site.


#83

Oh, and I don’t have a 2209 anymore to test write speeds or anything else with. Also, I returned my BH16NS40 in exchange for a WH16NS40 for money-saving purposes, since it’s the same drive for $40 less and I didn’t need the software.