LG BH16NS40 vs Pioneer BDR-2209 - which to keep?

vbimport

#44

[QUOTE=bilditup1;2726132]Media: DVD+R MCC 004
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Chemical Corp
Brand: Verbatim-branded 16x spindle, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-2209 / BDR-209M
Speed: 16x

The LG is capped at 8x when burning this media, but not so the Pioneer. So I did a set for 16x.

(Snippity snip snip)

[B]Note:[/B]

I also did a scan with the old NEC 3520AW for kicks. The disc fared much worce, with >100 PIF. So I’m not sure if the iHBS112 is actually useless for DVD scanning as well, or if the NEC is just old and picky. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]The NEC is much less useful for scanning DVD media. Trust the iHBS112 for that task.


#45

Media: DVD+R MKM 001
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Kagaku Media
Brand: Verbatim-branded 4x spindle, 30 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: LG GGC-H20L, MCSE’d fw 1.03 with MKM 003 strategy
Speed: 4x

[B]Transfer rate tests[/B]

[B]BH16NS40[/B] at 12x

[B]BDR-209M[/B]

[B]GGC-H20L[/B] (burning drive) at 8x

[B]iHBS112[/B] at 8x

[B]Disc Quality[/B]

This at least proves that this media is not worthless! Definitely a respectable result. Once I’m done with this spindle I’ll probably switch to MKM 003 for my DVD+R DL needs, but in the meantime, I’m glad I have at least one drive that doesn’t choke on these.
Also notable: only the LG BH16NS40 could read the disc any faster than 8x, despite setting a higher max read on each of the drives (usually 12 or 16x). Points there, I suppose.


#46

Since beginning this test, I have returned my BH16NS40 and Pioneer BDR-209M in favor of a WH16NS40 and BDR-208M. This combination ended being slightly cheaper (savings of $10) and moreover the BDR-208M does indeed seem to burn at a higher quality.
The next few posts will yield the results of the BDR-208M for the same media as I’ve already posted about above. Then I will finally get to BD-R quality for all three drives.


#47

Actually, it ended up doing a much better job than the LG at this speed:

This isn’t really that critical since I only have a few of these discs left and they’d probably be nigh impossible to come across today, but it’s striking just how much better a job the 2209 does with these awful discs than the BH16NS40.


#48

[B]bilditup1[/B], your tests are very actual and useful. Thank you!


#49

Media: CD-R 97m15s17f
Media Mfr: Verbatim?
Brand: Verbatim 52x spindle, sharpie, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M 1.10
Speed: 40x

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

This is of course far worse than the LG:

But also, somewhat surprisingly, than its successor, at least in terms of the amount of C2 errors:

The C2 errors for this disc seem to be clustered near the edge. Apparently that’s the hardest part to get right? That appears to be the trend.


#50

Media: CD-R 97m26s66f
Media Mfr: Verbatim?
Brand: Verbatim 52x spindle, Lightscribe, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M 1.10
Speed: 40x

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

That’s more like it. Far better results than either the LG:

Or the BDR-2209:

Worth noting, however, is that those drives burnt the disc at 32x, slower than the maximum, which I did in fact use with the BDR-208M - mistakenly. While in general I believe the rule of the thumb is ‘slower is better’ in terms of burn quality, I’m not sure that always holds, so I suppose these results are only provisional. Sorry again, whoever is actually reading this!


#51

Media: DVD+R MCC 004
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Chemical Corp
Brand: Verbatim 16x spindle, sharpie, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M 1.10
Speed: 40x

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

LG did very well with this media:

As did the BDR-2209:

The 2208 has the worst PIE result, but the best PIF result. I’m not sure how to interpret that - presuming that PIF errors are worse than PIEs, it takes the cake. But perhaps the avg PIE tells us more about the quality of the burn overall? In which case the LG is on top. I don’t know. In any case, all three drives did well, so for now I’m calling this a tie and if pressed in favor of the LG (which also has lower DC jitter, but I don’t really know the significance of that metric at all).


#52

These discs are horrendous. But for completeness’ sake, I tested it at 8x with the BDR-208M. Surprisingly enough, it yielded a less horrible if not stellar result:

Whereas the LG had almost twice as many PIE errors (as measured with ATA drivers, sorry - no jitter scan. Assume a slightly worse result from the Intel drivers):

And the BDR-209M couldn’t even be read near the end of the disc:

I’m not sure if that last tells us more about the media than the drive, but it’s a fairly poor result regardless. The ‘round’, such as it is, goes to the BDR-208M. So if you’ve got any of this awful media lying around, it’ll do a better job dealing with it.


#53

Media: DVD+R MKM 001
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Kagaku Media
Brand: Verbatim-branded 2.4x spindle, 30 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M 1.10
Speed: 2.4x

[B]Transfer rate tests[/B]

[B]BH16NS40[/B] at 12x

[B]BDR-209M[/B]

[B]BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]iHBS112[/B] at 8x

[B]Disc Quality[/B]

Once again, this media causes problems, though at least the TRTs are clean.

While the result is of slightly higher quality than the BDR-209M:

and much worse than the LG (though that burn had significant TRT issues):

…still, they’re clearly not great, and way outclassed by the patched GGC-H20L:

Worth noting is that the LG can read these dubious discs at 12x while the rest are limited to 8x.


#54

Media: BD-R PHILIPR04
Media Mfr: Philips
Brand: Rosewill 30pk 4x BD-R, sharpie
Model: RMI-SB25I
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 4x

Finally we get to BD burning. The max for this drive/media combo is 6x,
but I burnt at 4x across the board for all BD media, to emphasize quality testing.

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 4x

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 6x

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

A mediocre but not atrocious result. The top read speed on the burning drive is only 4x, which is disappointing. Read speeds on the other drives were alright, but drops in speed near the end were found when using higher speeds on the GGC-H20L and BDR-209M. DQ scan confirms that area was of lesser quality.

[B]Note[/B]: The earlier BD tests, like this one, do not have a trt by the BDR-208M. I think four drives is more than enough and have spent quite enough time on this little project of mine already :slight_smile:


#55

Media: BD-R PHILIPR04
Media Mfr: Philips
Brand: Rosewill 30pk 4x BD-R, sharpie
Model: RMI-SB25I
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 4.8x

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 6x

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Not too bad! GGC-H20L couldn’t keep reading at 6x, and quite strangely, the burning drive had a hard time reading the last third, but otherwise, the DQ numbers are pretty good! The LG once again proves itself to be a solid reader, topping out at 10x when 12x was selected, without any of the BDR-209M’s issues.


#56

Media: BD-R PHILIPR04
Media Mfr: Philips
Brand: Rosewill 30pk 4x BD-R, sharpie
Model: RMI-SB25I
Drive: BDR-208M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 6x

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

The results here are broadly similar to the BDR-209M, except without the all-over-the-map TRT of the burning drive. The GGC-H20L couldn’t keep up, but the BDR-208M managed to read at 12x with almost no issues. The DQ has a slightly worse LDC than the BDR-209M (15.44 vs 17.98) but also around 1% better DC jitter avg. Overall the BDR-209M wins the round. This media isn’t great, but it’s often sold for very cheap as part of a bundle or otherwise on Newegg, so I suppose it’s an option if you’re pinching pennies - especially if you limit yourself to the first 20GB or so, as most of the decline in burn quality seems to be at the disc’s edge.


#57

Media: BD-R JVC-AMS6L (LTH)
Media Mfr: JVC Taiyo Yuden
Brand: JVC Taiyo-Yuden 25pk 6x Gold BD-R LTH, inkjet printable
Model: J-BDR-25WPP-25SB6L
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 4x

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Really not that great. Read speeds on all the drives are lower than usual. The top speed on the iHBS112 ends up lower than selected, 6x instead of 8x, which I’ve found to be a rarity with that drive. The BDR-209M gives it the old college try but tapers off a bit at the end - which ends up matching up with a clear trouble area in the DQ scan. Meh.

Worth noting that the same disc did much better when streaming was off (see the first page of this thread)…but I have to assume the same would be true of all discs. Still, I guess it’s viable if you get a very good deal on the discs (like $12-13 or so) and keep streaming off. Right now, at $20 at amazon and $35 on Newegg, stay away.

Anyway, let’s see the rest of the results for this disc…


#58

Media: BD-R JVC-AMS6L (LTH)
Media Mfr: JVC Taiyo Yuden
Brand: JVC Taiyo-Yuden 25pk 6x Gold BD-R LTH, inkjet printable
Model: J-BDR-25WPP-25SB6L
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B] at 4x

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Much better DQ scan here, but still not great, and disc read speed is still pretty slow. The old GGC-H20L has issues reading even at 4x, and while the max read speed on the BH16NS40 is identified as 12x this time, it reads no faster than on the previous burn by the LG, at 6x. All in all, slightly less horrible. The end of the disc continue to be the issue with these ho-hum BD-Rs (though not the very very end in this particular case).


#59

Media: BD-R JVC-AMS6L (LTH)
Media Mfr: JVC Taiyo Yuden
Brand: JVC Taiyo-Yuden 25pk 6x Gold BD-R LTH, inkjet printable
Model: J-BDR-25WPP-25SB6L
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M
Speed: 4x

Finally we get to BD burning. The max for this drive/media combo is 6x,
but I burnt at 4x across the board for all BD media, to emphasize quality testing.

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

This almost makes the disc viable. The best DQ scan by far, and no stuttering in any of the TRTs. The BDR-208M wins the round handily.


#60

Media: BD-R RITEKBR3
Media Mfr: Ritek Corp.
Brand: Memorex 6x BD-R Single Jewel Case
Model: 98685
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 4x

Finally we get to BD burning. The max for this drive/media combo is 6x,
but I burnt at 4x across the board for all BD media, to emphasize quality testing.

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B] (re-done for better scaling a few hours later)

Had so much promise, but ultimately fails right near the end. Reads pretty quickly: 6x on the older LG, and even 12x by the BDR-209M (though there’s a random sharp dip that doesn’t match the ‘bad burn’ area in the DQ, not sure what’s up with that).
The scale on the DQ scan went haywire because of the outlier near the end. I didn’t realize this the first time I capped it, so I did another scan a few hours later. The results are much worse in terms of BIS but slightly better in terms of jitter. Not sure why they should deviate so much even with only six hours in between scans.

In any case, it’s a shame because it’s clear that most of the disc does alright before fucking up the end-game. Looks like this is gonna be a theme…


#61

Media: BD-R RITEKBR3
Media Mfr: Ritek Corp.
Brand: Memorex 6x BD-R Single Jewel Case
Model: 98685
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B] (10 days later)

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

With the exception of the BDR-209M, the burning drive, every single one of the TRTs have issues. These are most apparent in the BH16NS40. More troubling - I just did a second TRT with the iHBS112 and the results are significantly worse: only tries to read at 4x, and then significantly slows down in the problem area. I suspect if I did a quality scan, that entire area would be worse.
I think that’s a media issue more than a burner issue, and the DQ scan here is marginally better than the LG burn across the board. But the bad TRTs are still troubling. Let’s see what happens with the BDR-208M…


#62

Media: BD-R RITEKBR3
Media Mfr: Ritek Corp.
Brand: Memorex 6x BD-R Single Jewel Case
Model: 98685
Drive: Pioneer BDR-208M
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-208M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Some mixed results on the TRTs but generally better than the BDR-209M. The burning drive, interestingly, has some bad trouble. The BDR-209M had the best reads at the fastest speed and the LG had the smoothest TRT overall. Props to the newer drives for better reading of questionable media.

The DQ scan here is the best in terms of BIS and second only to the BDR-209M in terms of LDC. Still…bad TRTs again. About the only conclusion is that you should stay away from this media, period. The LG had smoother TRTs by more of the drives but the Pioneers had better quality scans: not sure what to do with that, again.


#63

Media: BD-R VERBATIMe
Media Mfr: Verbatim/MCC/MKM
Brand: Verbatim 6x BD-R 3pk Jewel Cases
Model: 96910 (jewel); 97341 (3pk box)
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 4x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

Very decent TRTs - the only disc so far that could be read almost entirely smoothly at 8x by the picky old GGC-H20L. DQ scan is not as good as the PHILIPR04/BDR-208M combo - the best so far - and LDC is kind of high. But this is the first Bluray media of the three we’ve looked at so far that doesn’t have a bad quality peak near the ends or edges of the disc. Promising, if nothing else. Let’s see what the Pioneers have to say about this…