LG BH16NS40 vs Pioneer BDR-2209 - which to keep?

vbimport

#24

[QUOTE=cvs;2725740]You can get a 208M, 208EBK or 2208 model if you can find one much cheaper, the only downside is that for the time being Pioneer hasn’t released the 1.30 firmware update for drives with this particular kernel. Not a big issue as they still burn very well with the factory 1.10 firmware… On the aesthetic side they don’t come with the posh bezel typical to S08 drives but obviously that has nothing to do with burn quality which is what matters… the only differences between all these drives are at firmware level (and very small ones at that) and they all share identical hardware.[/QUOTE]

It’s a significant difference - $40 savings at least. It doesn’t sound like it’s worth it, so I’ll stick with those. Thanks for your input.

I’ve redone all the tests and more, by the way, and should be posting them tonight or tomorrow.


#25

Media: CD-R 97m15s17f
Drive: LG BH16NS40 1.02

50pk Verbatim 52x CD-R (exact model - need to check)
Burnt at [B]40x[/B] (max write speed of BDR-209M)

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M/B

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 at 40x[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 at 48x[/B]


#26

Media: CD-R 97m15s17f
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M 1.10

50pk Verbatim 52x CD-R (exact model - need to check)
Burnt at [B]40x[/B] (max write speed of BDR-209M)

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B](burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 at 48x[/B]


#27

Media: CD-R 97m15s17f
Drive: LG BH16NS40 1.02

50pk Verbatim 52x CD-R (exact model - need to check)
Burnt at [B]48x[/B] (max write speed of BDR-209M)

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M/B

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 [/B]

[B]Disc Quality Scan[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112 at 48x[/B]


#28

Media: CD-R 97m15s17f
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M 1.10

50pk branded Verbatim 52x (exact model - need to check)
Burnt at [B]40x[/B] (max write speed of BDR-209M)

Burnt at [B]48x[/B]

[B]Conclusion[/B]: dead heat in quality at the same speed. Points to LG for burning a bit faster with slight quality loss.


#29

The above media 97m15s17f are NOT LightScribe discs. They’re just stock branded Verbatims.


#30

Media: CD-R 97m66s16f
Media Mfr: CMC Magnetics
Brand: Verbatim 52x LightScribe 50 pack
Model: 96164
Drive: LG BH16NS40 1.02
Speed: [B]32x[/B] (arbitrarily chosen - stupid mistake)

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B]

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112[/B]

[B]Quality Scan[/B]

Marginally better quality than 97m15f17s but that’s to be expected given the slightly slower speed.


#31

Media: CD-R 97m66s16f
Media Mfr: CMC Magnetics
Brand: Verbatim 52x LightScribe 50 pack
Model: 96164
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M 1.10
Speed: [B]32x[/B]

[B]Transfer rate tests [/B]
(at max read speed for each drive)

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B]

[B]Pioneer BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]LG GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]LiteON iHBS112[/B]

[B]Quality Scan[/B]

Marginally better quality than 97m15f17s but that’s to be expected given the slightly slower speed.


#32

CD-R 97m66s16f
Media Mfr: CMC Magnetics
Brand: Verbatim 52x LightScribe 50 pack
Model: 96164
Drives: LG BH16NS40 1.02; Pioneer BDR-209M 1.10
Speed: [B]32x[/B]

[B]Quality Scans[/B]

[B]Conclusions[/B]: TIE. LG marginally faster.
Not actually marginally better than 97m15s17f - compared scans at different speeds (redid them). Given the similarity of the results I have to wonder if we can assume CD-R media these days is well-made or if the CD scanning of the iHBS112 gives us meaningless results.


#33

[QUOTE=bilditup1;2725864]… or if the CD scanning of the iHBS112 gives us meaningless results.[/QUOTE]

DVD and BD drives with MediaTek chipsets only report the worst of the C1 & worst of the C2 errors with CDs. Scanning using an Optiarc DVDRW drive, NEC DVDRW drive, true old Plextor DVDRW, or true old BenQ DVDRW would give you a more…full idea of the differences, if there are any.

But then again, by that point, if the disc works… :wink:


#34

[QUOTE=Albert;2725876]Scanning using an Optiarc DVDRW drive, NEC DVDRW drive, true old Plextor DVDRW, or true old BenQ DVDRW would give you a more…full idea of the differences, if there are any.
[/QUOTE]

[B]97m15s17f[/B] (RITEK/Verbatim Regular)

[B]97m26s66f[/B] (CMC Magnetics/Verbatim Lightscribe)

And for fun:
[B]97m26s07f[/B] (Fornet Int’l/unbranded)

[B]Conclusion:[/B] Quality scans seem to be consistently a little better for the LG (a lot better in the case of the Riteks). The LG can burn the Riteks a bit faster but at a significant quality cost. Quality of the discs is so-so, but in any case they all read just fine in my modern drives, so like Albert said I don’t know how much this matters. In any case, giving the round to the LG (not really counting the Fornet burns) though it only really shone in one test.


#35

Interesting about Fornets…looks like the Pioneer was trying its hardest to burn quickly without sacrificing quality. Had it stayed at 16x or 24x I guess it would have done a better job. It would be nice to compare two burns at the same speed, but the Pioneer doesn’t let me set write speeds in ODC, so I guess I’d have to use a different program to burn and make another burn by the LG as well.


#36

The Sony-branded Moser Baer discs I have are truly horrendous, a fact made crystal-clear by subsequent testing. So if anything, I’ll post them last as a kind of freebie. :Z sums it up.

These next discs though, these are golden. I’ve gotta get some more - they’re the remnants of a Verbatim-branded DVD+R spindle from years ago (what a surprise). Anybody know if they’re still widely available?


#37

The NEC is alright. There are a few spikes/glitches which throw off the automatic scaling (you can manually set the scaling to get around that), but you sort of got the overall trend.

Of note is that you should probably stick with one scanning speed. 24x seems more…attainable? Reliable? …but if you find that 48x works, then that’s fine, too. :slight_smile:

Regarding the Pioneer’s burn speed: do you have two speed selection boxes on the Create Data Disc screen? If so, did you try using both of them to set the speed? And what speed did you select?

EDIT: You can probably get some Verbatim AZO discs that are better than the MBI discs. Maybe not as good as your old stock Verbatim, but still okay.


#38

[QUOTE=Albert;2725930]The NEC is alright. There are a few spikes/glitches which throw off the automatic scaling (you can manually set the scaling to get around that), but you sort of got the overall trend.
[/QUOTE]

Great! Being a hopeless hoarder comes in handy once again :slight_smile:

Of note is that you should probably stick with one scanning speed. 24x seems more…attainable? Reliable? …but if you find that 48x works, then that’s fine, too. :slight_smile:

I did in fact scan the Fornets at 48x but the result was comical. Can put it up for shits and giggles later. Everything else, I’ll stick to 48x.

Regarding the Pioneer’s burn speed: do you have two speed selection boxes on the Create Data Disc screen? If so, did you try using both of them to set the speed? And what speed did you select?

Meh, you’re right, I checked it too quickly. It’s the read speed that only ever has one value. Since it doesn’t take long I’ll make one at 16x just to get a more direct comparison.

You can probably get some Verbatim AZO discs that are better than the MBI discs. Maybe not as good as your old stock Verbatim, but still okay.

Aight, will do - thanks. In any case I don’t anticipate I’ll need that many DVDs for now.


#39

Media: DVD+R MCC 004
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Chemical Corp
Brand: Verbatim-branded 16x spindle, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 8x

[B]Transfer Rate Tests[/B] at 8x

[B]LG BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]BDR-209M[/B]
Whoops! Forgot to do it. But honestly, not much of a point.

[B]GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]iHBS112[/B]

Max read speed for this media on the GGC-H20L is 12x, which it attains without issue.

[B]Quality Scan[/B] at 8x

Das sum nice flutin’ boy, said Chief Wiggum


#40

Media: DVD+R MCC 004
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Chemical Corp
Brand: Verbatim-branded 16x spindle, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-2209 / BDR-209M
Speed: 8x

[B]Transfer Rate Tests[/B] at 16x (12x for GGC-H20L)

[B]BH16NS40[/B]

Never did it. Whoops!

[B]BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]iHBS112[/B]

[B]Quality Scan[/B]

I did the scan twice; the first time it was while using (by mistake) built-in stock Windows ATA drivers instead of the proper Intel chipset SATA drivers (a.k.a. “Intel Rapid Storage Technology”). Jitter scanning is impossibly slow in that mode so I did it again (and also just to control for variables).

[B]First scan (ATA drivers)[/B]

[B]Second scan (Intel drivers w/jitter)[/B]

Second scan has slightly better PIE but slightly worse POF. In any case, quality-wise it is edged out by the LG. However, see next post.


#41

Media: DVD+R MCC 004
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Chemical Corp
Brand: Verbatim-branded 16x spindle, 50 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-2209 / BDR-209M
Speed: 16x

The LG is capped at 8x when burning this media, but not so the Pioneer. So I did a set for 16x.

[B]Transfer rate tests[/B] at 16x (12x for GGC-H20L)

[B]BH16NS40[/B]

[B]BDR-209M[/B] (burning drive)

[B]GGC-H20L[/B]

Never done. Whoops!

[B]iHBS112[/B]

Never done. Whoops!

[B]Quality Scan[/B]

Same deal as last post.

[B]First scan (ATA drivers)[/B]

[B]Second scan (Intel drivers w/jitter)[/B]

For some reason, the results are twice as bad PIE-wise in the second scan. Somewhat odd; I didn’t know the scans could vary that much with the same piece of media in the same drive. Maybe it got dirty? Maybe the drivers affected the results?
In any case, while these results are worse and in fact out of range PIF-wise according to the ODC manual, if you value burn speed, the Pio gets points. If it’s quality-uber-alles - at least with this media - the LG does pretty damn well. Worth noting that the Pioneer comes close to the LG quality when burning at 8x, just one more PIE (though it seems like a lot more because it is %-wise much worse).

[B]Note:[/B]

I also did a scan with the old NEC 3520AW for kicks. The disc fared much worce, with >100 PIF. So I’m not sure if the iHBS112 is actually useless for DVD scanning as well, or if the NEC is just old and picky. Thoughts?


#42

Media: DVD+R MKM 001
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Kagaku Media (MCC/MKM/Verbatim I’m realizing is all the same)
Brand: Verbatim-branded 2.4x spindle, 30 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: LG BH16NS40
Speed: 2.4x

Somewhat annoying scale on above screenshot; sorry.

[B]Transfer rate tests[/B]

[B]BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

[B]BDR-209M[/B]

[B]GGC-H20L[/B]

[B]iHBS112[/B]

This is pretty freaking bad already. I’m actually somewhat shocked. The iHBS112 and the Pioneer are to be commended for staying at 8x (mostly, even they had red zones) - so possible points for the Pioneer there, in terms of being able to read crappily-burnt media quickly? The oldest drive of them all, the GGC-H20L, had the most problems with it and could not complete the access times portion of the test (this happened twice with this disc). For me the fact that the burning drive couldn’t read it’s own burn without issue is the most damning.

[B]Disc Quality[/B]

Two samples, same reason as past two posts.

[B]First scan (ATA drivers)[/B]

[B]Second scan (Intel drivers w/jitter)[/B]

Results slightly worse second time, bad all around, and in the places you might expect. I’ve heard nothing but good about MKM 001 and 003, my reaction to this is wtf??? As for the Pioneer…


#43

Media: DVD+R MKM 001
Media Mfr: Mitsubishi Kagaku Media (MCC/MKM/Verbatim I’m realizing is all the same)
Brand: Verbatim-branded 2.4x spindle, 30 pack
Model: Unknown
Drive: Pioneer BDR-209M
Speed: 2.4x

Somewhat annoying scale on above screenshot; sorry.

[B]Transfer rate tests[/B]

[B]BH16NS40[/B] (burning drive)

Never did it, whoops! (But seriously this stuff is taking too much time.)

[B]BDR-209M[/B] at 8x

[B]GGC-H20L[/B]

Never did it, whoops! (But seriously this stuff is taking too much time.)

[B]iHBS112[/B] at 6x

[B]Disc Quality[/B]

This is even worse, but the TRTs are solid on both the LG and iHBS112 (though I think they may be the drives that are best at reading, and iHBS112 refused to even attempt to read the disc past 6x - the option was not in the dropdown.) This quality scan is pretty awful, but given the lack of TRT issues I think the Pioneer still has the edge? I’m not sure how to ‘rule’ here.
At this point I asked myself - are these discs’ reps unfounded? Am I missing something? So I did one more test with this media…