Lexicon $3500 BD player

vbimport

#1

This is pretty funny stuff. Check out what Lexicon is selling for $3500. Not that it isn’t a great player, the Oppo is hard to beat at any price. Full story at Audioholics here:

Here’s the surprisingly brief Product page at Lexicon:

http://www.lexicon.com/products/details.asp?ID=27


#2

$3500.00 is a little expensive. Just like Goldmund’s ridiculous priced Blu-Ray player at $135,000.00

I would chuckle too.

:cool::cool:


#3

Audio/videophile idiots will pay a LOT for something they are convinced is better then whatever the rest of us mere mortals can afford and this proves it. And of course the companys selling them their snake oil make all kinds of claims about how their gear or whatever is so much better becuase they only build it under a full moon and use oxygen free cables or whatever.
It’s no wonder the high end audio market is kinda dying, how many dolts do they think are going to actually pay for this crap.


#4

I’ve been following this story for 2 days now and it just gets weirder by the day…The claimed, and then disappearing, THX certification is now moving to the forefront…

Also this ‘impartial’ review…:rolleyes:

[I]“I am sure people will attack this player as a “rebadged” Oppo, so I went out and bought an Oppo BD-83 SE in order to fairly compare the two. First off, there is no comparison between the build quality of the two players. The Oppo is lighter and the buttons have a far less solid feel to them. The Lexicon is a taller, much heftier unit. Black levels were close, but the Lexicon had a more natural contrast and color palette than the Oppo. More importantly, the Lexicon was nearly totally silent when loading discs and changing tracks. Those familiar with the Oppo know it is a rather noisy player when loading discs, switching tracks and scanning, even sometimes for no apparent reason. The drive is in the Oppo is noisy enough to catch my attention during quiet passages in movies, while the Lexicon is inaudible during use at all times.”[/I]

http://hometheaterreview.com/lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player-reviewed/

And then the AVS Forum thread…

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166176


#5

Yes, I would say that there is a slighted point of view.

:cool::cool:


#6

The idiots will make stuff up or just imagine it must look and sound better, that’s why I like double blind level matched tests myself, that way you aren’t hearing or seeing something becuase you like a certain device. The people that do buy these things hate double blind testing and think it’s useless, you can remember any differences and the blind tests isn’t accurate, etc, etc.
I figure the only way I’ll know for myself if something is better or worse is to double blind it, that way my prejudices and expectations aren’t clouding my judgment.


#7

The THX certification is less of a issue, since the primary factor in getting certification is the payment of the hefty fee. But the player was originally touted as being the only THX BD player.

Oppo owners are wondering if maybe Lexicon will have some left over THX decals, so we can stick them on our players to make them sound better.


#8

I guess it got into a pretty heated debate over at Home Theater Review, below are some of the transcripts of what took place. The point of view is from one of the individuals who was involved in the debate.

Original Source - http://www.stabbingpixies.com/htrtranscript.cfm

[B]I was involved in the comments altercation at home theater review regarding the Lexicon / Oppo drama… As described in the article, the reviewer had claimed huge quality differences between the two devices in question… when he was called on it (i was involved in the thread as “m”) the abuse started flying in… my posts were a “conspiracy” to discredit Lexicon, HTR, the reviewer… you name it…

The site owner deleted posts a few times before shutting down the thread.

The Story so far:

  1. The Lexicon BD-30 is a rebadged Oppo BPD-83 marked up 3000 dollars above the Oppo. Identical components.
  1. Like the Oppo BPD-83, it fails some minor THX requirements.
  1. THX passes it anyway, happy with the cash.

With me so far?

  1. HomeTheaterReview reviews the Lexicon and gushes about the improved quality of the Lexicon over the Oppo BPD-83SE (note the SE part). It specifically tests against an Oppo to DISCREDIT the cloning claims.

You see… Oppo upgraded the BPD-83. Lexicon didn’t. HTR has actually reviewed the Lexicon against a superior player.

  1. When the review is challenged on this point in the comments to the review the HTR Site owner goes nuts and accuses the posters of conspiracy, because they are using anonymous email addresses (which only he could see anyway).
  1. HTR Site owner starts deleting comments.
  1. More posters start commenting on that.
  1. HTR Site owner removes comments altogether.
  1. A pissed off commentator at HTR (ME!) now hosts the deleted thread over at his band site stabbingpixies.com.

9a Hooray for freedom of information.

  1. audioholics.com, Blu-ray.com, AVrant.com, AVSforum.com, Slashdot.com +++ are now carrying stories not only about THX/Lexicon deception, but audiophile paranoia at HTR, and linking to those deleted comments.

Moral of story: Lexicon loses. THX loses. HTR loses. Musicians win. Hooray.

___________________________Comments start here:

  • By Jim

Thanks for the review. You mention that no other player you’ve heard of comes with a calibration disc, but later you mention that you acquired a BDP-83SE for comparison. The BDP-83 (both stock and SE) come with two calibration discs (Spears & Munsil for video and an AIX disc for audio).


  • Posted on January 15, 2010 8:32 AM by Ken Taraszka, MD

Jim,

You are correct, I had written that line before I received my Oppo unit and missed revising it. Thanks for the correction!

Ken


  • Posted on January 15, 2010 2:00 PM by Chris

Meanwhile, people opening the two have noted that the Oppo and Lexicon are entirely physically identical. It’s clear that, despite the vague posturing in your review, the Lexicon really is nothing more than a recased Oppo unit. The placebo effect is alive and well.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 1:52 AM by Ken Taraszka, MD

Chris,

Believe as you wish, the units are not identical. The sizeof the units is different, the buttons are completely redone, and the drive and outputs have been completely reworked to Lexicon’s spec.

Why do you think I BOUGHT an Oppo BD-83 SE for comparison???

For many the Oppo will be all they want and need, the Lexicon is marketed towards another level of enthusiast.

KT


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:47 AM by Klaus

Have a look at:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 6:16 AM by Henry

Hey Ken, your review reads a little shallow now they have relieved that the Lexicon BD-30 is just a shell built around and actual Oppo BD-83. Hope this review doesn’t make it to print!


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 6:33 AM by ZZJ

Hahaha, oh wow. Chris pretty much nailed it. +1 for the last sentence as well.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 6:41 AM by gregery

Never trust someone who refers to technology as a “rig”. A rig is crap tied together with a rope, which gives them something to fall back on when hyperbole is exposed.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 6:56 AM by Jim

" The sizeof the units is different"
The BD-30 is taller, but we already knew that Lexicon made a new faceplate. Frankly, the extra height could be explained by having to accommodate setting the 83’s chassis inside their box and by having bigger feet on the bottom.

" the buttons are completely redone"
Actually, the buttons appear to line up perfectly with the placement of the controls on the BDP-83. Sure, the navigation pad on the BDP-83 is replaced with a cluster of five separate buttons, but each button location matches up with a contact behind the 83’s pad.

"and the drive and outputs have been completely reworked to Lexicon’s spec."
They may have asked the drive maker to make some changes, as you noted that the drive was quieter. You also described the 83’s drive as being louder than I’ve found it to be. Do you have any measurements of the output changes? For that matter, did you compare the sound quality of the analog outputs? The reason that I ask has to do with your next statement:

"Why do you think I BOUGHT an Oppo BD-83 SE for comparison??? "
This is where I’ve really curious. First, the BDP-83SE uses a different power supply and analog section than the stock BDP-83. As you’ll see in Audioholics’ write-up, the BD-30 appears to be using the same power supply and analog board as the stock BDP-83. Thus the BD-30 and BDP-83SE may look different inside, but that would be because OPPO produced an upgraded model and Lexicon used their base model. It is not indicative of any improvements made by Lexicon - worse, it is indicative that OPPO made the sort of changes that Lexicon should have made and still charge $2,600 less for their player.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 7:01 AM by m

Damn you got burned hereken. Be a man and admit it.

The issue here is that THX certified the Lexicon… but not the Oppo… bringing THX into high disrepute since there is ABSOLUTELY no difference here except superficial cosetics. Bluff all you like… others have opened the box and subjected it to detailed tests… the evidence is irrefutable.

Slashdot have now picked up the story - so millions are laughing at this deception: Lexicon are dithering… THX are backpeddling… And once again Audiophiles are being fooled by holy grail cosmetics, and so called discerning reviewers are unable to objectively critique beyond the bling of a brand - and dubious ostentation levels.

You bought the hype…Your damage control from this point will be interesting…


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 7:46 AM by Igor

This is an excellent example that a lot of people buy more expensive equipment thinking that it’s better then the cheaper products. They will even insist that they can notice a difference.
Ken you should admit to being wrong.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 7:56 AM by Jerry Del Colliano

Please allow me to clear up a MAJOR PILE of BULLSHIT that one audiophile company (not mentioned by name but note the fake email addresses above) is promoting in this thread.

Lexicon uses the same transport as the Oppo. So what? This is an industry accepted practice as NEARLY ALL AV companies can’t afford the R&D to build a transport from top to bottom. Camelot Technologies made their audiophile grade DVD player, the Roundtable, built around a Panasonic transport but added a better chassis, Anchor Bay video processing and 24 bit DACs. The people above would say “its the same as the Panasonic” but it clearly is not. EMM Labs used a Philips transport for their audiophile CD-SACD player to push the state of the art in audiophile performance. Theta has built LD players, CD players and DVD machines ALL using other company’s transport. Its an industry standard.

As Ken says in the review - for most the Oppo is good enough. If you want a more solid build quality and numerous upgrades (at a higher price) then the Lexicon is worth consideration.

Moreover, Ken opened his wallet and bought an Oppo machine to do the very relevant comparison down the food chain and cited his opinions. Additionally, he cited comparisons to the $21,000 EMM Labs “rig” (by the way for the poster above - if you have ever been in a recording studio, you would hear the word rig"

Lastly and with all due respect to Audioholics.com - they are a STORE. They SELL GEAR. In fact they sell OPPO.

Moreover, I can tell you that there is an audiophile company behind this SMEAR campaign that is really making a fool of themselves here. Their brand has not been mentioned nor will I mention it but its really shameful. Oppo is a GROUNDBREAKING product and I am putting one in my system soon to replace my old SACD player and a few other components. Its beloved and rightfully so by high end companies, audio and video enthusiasts and reviewers alike. But to slam a noted company like Lexicon for making an up-market version of an OEM transport is to stunt the growth of high performance audio. Its stupid.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 7:59 AM by m

Jerry.

Be a little objective here:

hometheaterreview runs a subjective test: ears only.
In that test vast differences are described between the two units. enough to justify a 500% markup in price, on the grounds that the value level is justified, not least due to the THX quality of the product.

BS has been called: The Lexicon falis basic THX requirements JUST LIKE THE OPPO.

Audioholics runs a frequency analysis test that shows that the discrepencies are exactly the same: the two units are identical. Lexicon didnt see fit to even improve upon those areas that FAIL the THX standards requirements.

Thats the bigger story.
The fact that Ken has been caught in the common trap that most audiophiles get trapped in: letting his eyes do the listening, is simply more evidence of the unobjective nature of the audiophile market… and the single main reason why companies like lexicon will pull this crap. They know theres a gullible market for their bling.

Regarding this whole dialogue: Discerning Consumer or Rabid Fanboi. Which is more constructive?

Regards m


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 8:27 AM by m

Update: aplogies… in fairness the above review doesnt comment on the THX element… Ive been reading around on the device and confused my articles…

Also for the record… im just a guy looking for a decent player, and nearly bought the hype of the Lexicon… Other than that i have no relationship to either product. Youll have to take my word for that, regardless of whether I choos to publish my private email or not…

m


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 8:35 AM by Jerry Del Colliano

Dead M,

For most the Oppo is the way to go and Ken says that. The price is killer and the performance is STRONG. I am putting one in my pretty serious RIG (yes I said rig - see above) in the next few weeks. The Lexicon is for someone who wants something a little more. A little better build quality, better internal parts, a billion dollar company’s engineering department behind the ODM of the product.

M, when you post youarelair.com, you don’t earn a lot of credibility with me. Post your real name if you want to be taken seriously. Other readers PLEASE CONSIDER that people and high end AV companies are trying the SHILL the site with flames against the Lexicon. Both players are excellent. YOU should make the decision as to which one is right for you. Read Ken’s opinions on all three transports in the review. Its worth your time. I am confident that you will make the right decision for your system as both the Oppo and Lexicon are EXCELLENT for what they do.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 8:43 AM by m

Jerry…

My private email is private… simple as that… i feel no need to put it out there for this issue.

When I get a name and email field above a comments post… its unlikely I’m going to put in personal details. Simple.

That being said: The facts in hand are undeniable. There is no physical improvement in any of the components in the Lexicon, except for superficial chassis scaling.The capacitors and electronics are the same. The power supply is the same. There is NO audible improvement between the players. Nothing is different on the inside. It is a clone. It is a shell.

Now… in the context of electronics industry…It is understood and expected that rebranding can often mean reusing basic parts… 99% of all boutique devices have eastern electronic parts… it is the final 1% that can make a difference… no-one, including me will argue that point.

However … In this case we are talking about identical materials for 5 times the price. Two identical devices. And reviewed and compared in hometheatrereview unobjectively. Without anything beyond blueeyed “cost more=sounds better” analysis. Without any credible analysis or reliable results
This is the lie. The lie has been called. hence youareliar.com
Thats for you Ken. Yesterday I took your review very seriously enough to put the lexicon on my buy list, which perhaps can demonstrate the burden of responsibiltiy for a review like this, and why Im calling you on this issue as I do.

Now: If you, or anyone else can post reliable audio analysis results which can prove differently, I will gladly retract all statements and post an apology with my private email for the world to see.
Simply dissing audioholics.com because they took the trouble to compare the devices from a scientific perspective (which you didnt) is… irrelevant.
They described thier process of review. Emulate and reproduce or dissent. Anything else is simply posturing.

Until then, as far as Im concerned… anonymity is my flame-retardant suit, and this is simply a showdown between the unquestioning believers and the sceptics…

Having said that. Thanks hometheaterreview for allowing this dialogue… It all builds awareness.

Flamesuits on.

m


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 9:07 AM by M le Compte du Toulouse

" …better internal parts"

Basically identical internal parts, you mean.

“… a billion dollar company’s engineering department behind the ODM of the product.”

What, Oppo? All Lexicon seem to have done is plonk the Oppo guts into a new box.

Jerry is proof that some mugs will fawn over a product because it’s expensive - and when you call them on it, they bluff. Poorly.

  • Posted on January 16, 2010 9:14 AM by Jim

Jerry, I’ve spent a good bit of time with the OPPO player and know how good a piece it is. I had no issue with Lexicon’s announcement to use it as the foundation for their player. Theta and Ayre are doing the same thing, and in all three cases it is a clear compliment to the BDP-83 as a platform that those companies are using it. Any of these products, assuming they receive tweaks and refinements, are working well out on the “diminishing returns” curve - a small market segment, but one that accepts the cost increases involved. I also don’t care either way about the THX licensing, although I do think that it merits some discussion.

What I am interested in learning is what Lexicon really did to improve on the BDP-83. The stock player is a great value, and by all accounts OPPO’s SE upgrade to it puts it in a position to challenge the “big boys” in terms of analog performance while still costing under $1k. Disregard the words in Audioholics’ review (and yes, their decision to merge their news/review site with an online store does some weird things to how they are perceived - they aren’t one of my regular stops for reviews). I just looked at the pictures of the two players and the measurements taken. The BDP-83 (not the 83SE) and BD-30 look indistinguishable (same boards attached to the same stamped base plate, same front panel layout) and they measured very similarly in every test. As I mentioned above, comparing the BD-30 and the 83SE is not what is needed at this point. It has value, as I’d like to know how the 83SE’s upgraded ESS-based analog section compares to the BD-30’s Cirrus-based analog section. It doesn’t address the current concern, which is that Lexicon has made no clearly identified changes to the three boards inside the player. Is that “diminishing returns” market being well-served by the BD-30, or are they being well-served by the BDP-83SE and abused by the BD-30?

  • Posted on January 16, 2010 9:17 AM by Jerry Del Colliano

M,

I think its best that you go back to the AVSforum.com where flaming good companies like Lexicon is more common.

The fact that you don’t list your name is fishy isn’t it. If you don’t want to post your email address, perhaps I can understand that but to hide your name too? Really. You realize that founders of high end audio companies started this flame session right? How do I know that isn’t you? How do I know you don’t work for a dealer that sells a competing product? Basically, by hiding - you have no credibility.

Lastly, think what you want. This isn’t Fox News. This isn’t the religious right. At HomeTheaterReview.com there is room for more than one opinion. But to make it a “right or wrong” issue is a slap in the face of one of my editors (who you will note actually uses his name) as to the listening and testing that he did with the Oppo, the Lexicon and even the EMM Labs as well as close to a dozen other HD disc players. If you disagree with him - fine. If you think the players sound the same - fine. But to say that it is a matter of right and wrong is not how we play here.

Both the Oppo and the Lexicon are fine Blu-ray players using the same or close to the same transports (I am not an EE). That’s not uncommon. For most, as Ken said, the Oppo will do the job. For those looking for a more upmarket player with a more solid build quality etc… There is an option for a Lexicon. Its that simple. Both are solid choices.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 9:18 AM by Klaus

@editor

have you tried to put something like a “Sacred Seven Stone Pyramid” (???) on top of the cheaper device? "Pyramids amplify and then tightly focus energy through the apex."
Its only $29.95 and it looks nice.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 9:28 AM by m

Jeff.

Youve devoted 3 times as much time and effort questioning my credibility and arguing “conspiracy” than the effort to refute the evidence.

This Chewbacca defense is not a defense at all (anonymous postings on hometheaterreview = conspiracy = PROVES accuracy of review = ignore overwhelming physical evidence!).

I could be Abe Lincoln. I could be Charles Manson. I can register any email I like… Thats a different argument: something to do with privacy vs integrity of my post.
Short story shorter: I dont care enough for the integrity of what I state to risk my privacy on an open forum.

Also: there could be a conspiracy as you describe: I dont know… Perhaps “folks” really have it in for Lexicon… or Ken, or You… or even me!!.. again: not really the point, and personally Im a bit sceptical of that, and consider it a diversion.

Nontheless… happily you and I are now fueling a very relevant and worthwhile debate… the facts at hand are as yet unrefuted, and people coming here to google and giggle can now go to http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/01/16/0336210/THX-Caught-With-Pants-Down-Over-Lexicon-Blu-ray-Player?art_pos=6&art_pos=8
to make their own minds up.

Regarding the “conspiracy” you describe… well truth trumps conspiracy every time right? The review above has its own level of “truthiness” that Im challenging. Bring me some truth… thats all I want.

The simple point of my post is: the hardware. Is it or isnt it different? Everything else is a smokescreen, including conspiracy theories… The evidence is in now at other sites, and either it can be refuted or it can’t.

Your baiting me for personal information is simply irrelevant. I can burst that consiracy in 5 seconds if I choose… will it help in anyay to verify the specs of the devices in question? I’m simply challenging the accuracy of the review… and feel that as a professional in the field, Ken has an obligation to backup his review with fact… If you yourself were objective… you would think that was a great idea, and be looking forward to the results.

Cheers,

m


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 9:55 AM by Chris OMalley

Also, it has been confirmed that the newest Oppo firmware updates which provide loads of new functionality don’t work with the Lexicon, even though the innards are the same…how is THAT Lexicon standing behind their product? Lexicon really screwed the pooch on this one.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 10:02 AM by Chris OMalley

Jerry,

Why do you continue to ignore the basic fact that the Oppo player, chassis and all, with NO CHANGES, was just plopped inside a $3000 aluminum shell? Lexicon did not change anything.

Chris OMalley (chris.omalley@verizon.net)…I’m not afraid of giving out my real name, just so you know, Jerry.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 10:05 AM by Chris OMalley

Jerry,

You also say a couple times that Ken says “the oppo is the way to go” and “the oppo will do the job” for most people…could you please show me in Ken’s review where he says something along those lines? I can’t find it.

Chris


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 10:15 AM by Daniel

It should be noted that the Lexicon is not based on the Oppo SE chassis, and should only be compared to the standard Oppo chassis. The Oppo SE has different analog and power supply boards, so obviously it will look different.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 10:18 AM by m

Fair enough. *******************

bring it on :slight_smile:


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 11:03 AM by Picard

face palm


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 11:24 AM by Peter Tribermani

I find it ironic that the owner of this website is bashing another publication for bringing to light that a company that advertises here is scamming the industry. When you look at the content on this site, what do you find? Not a single negative review. The only negative comments about products focus mostly on the remote controls which they know consumers don’t care about anyways since they use universal remotes in favor of the OEM one.

I find it very interesting that most of the reviews here are simply cut and paste reviews from Jerry’s old side AVREV.com. Most of the reviews read more like press releases contracted out by the manufacturers themselves.

It makes you wonder, is this a real A/V publication or simply a printing press for high end A/V companies like Lexicon?


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 12:56 PM by Craig

To Jerry the Editor

Of course an individual reviewer’s perception of how one product sounds or performs is not a matter of right or wrong. I’m pretty sure no one posting here will claim that it is. I have very little issue with Ken’s review. It could very well be (however unlikely) that the Lexicon uses some different internal parts in the drive mechanism that makes it quieter. More likely, perhpas the thicker face plate muffles some of the drive noise. The buttons could very well feel more sturdy on the Lexicon, as, apart from the face plate and a couple of other cosmetic touches, these are the only things that are not found on the Oppo BDP-83. The only real lapse on Ken’s part was comparing the Lexicon to the Oppo SE edition - a player with ugraded PSU and analog output components - instead of a base Oppo BDB-83.

The that myself and others seem to be having is your blatant refusal to call a spade a spade. The internals of the Lexicon are identical to the Oppo. They do not just use some of the same parts. All parts are identical (with the possible exception of the driver internals, though unlikely). All parts or in the identical configuration - right down to an identical layout on the back panel.

Yes, you are right, both the Oppo and the Lexicon are fine players. Your statement that the Lexicon is a more upmarket player is misleading, however, as it is so only in cosmetics and brand name. In light of the Audioholics link posted above, I’m not sure how you can continue to ignore this.

Your failure to acknowledge this is putting your chances of escaping this discussion with even the smallest shred of dignity in serious jeopardy.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 1:17 PM by Peter Tribermani

If you click the pictures in the article comparing the two players, the images expand. You can clearly see the drive mechanisms are identical. As Craig points out the thicker chassis may be muffling the drive noise. I frequent AVS all the time and read the Oppo threads. Not a single user there to my knowledge has had an issue with drive noise. It seems to me this is a knock against Oppo to justify the Lexicon. This review is very suspicious to me the more I read into it and see how adamant the owner of this site is about defending its credibility.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 1:23 PM by Ken Taraszka, MD

Peter,

I can assure you the drive noise I encountered with the BD-83 SE was significant enough that Oppo sent me a new player, which I just received and thus have not had a chance to evaluate. FWIW Brian Kahn, another reviewer for the site who also has an Oppo BD-83 SE also found the drive significantly more noisy than the standard BD-83.

The level of noise was not affected by the case, the Lexicon is DEAD SILENT even with your ear next to the player, I can hear my Oppo (they are immediately on top of each other now) during quiet movie passages.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 2:30 PM by Chris OMalley

I own a regular BDP-83 (not SE) and will admit the drive can be slightly noisy at times (but just slightly, and I’m a perfectionist when it comes to that kind of stuff). I’m sure the Lexicon doesn’t have this problem since the Oppo chassis is sitting inside the Lexicon chassis which I’m sure is a well-built and rugged skin.

I actually have a couple SACDs that cause the drive to vibrate badly. I mailed them to Oppo and they’re currently investigating.

That said, some people have placed Vibrapods under the Oppo and have noticed a quieter experience overall. I have yet to try this.

Chris


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 2:45 PM by Jim

Ken - If the first SE’s noise was loud enough to lead to a replacement being sent to you, might it be worthwhile to wait to pass judgment until you hear the replacement?

Also, any chance you could get a look inside Brian Kahn’s BDP-83 (non-SE) and compare it to the BD-30? A comparison of the BD-30 to the stock BDP-83 would more accurately represent the BD-30’s lineage.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 2:49 PM by Bob

You know you are in for a bad review when the author uses “DR” in his title only to find out later in the comments he’s a medical doctor. I’m sure that most medical schools have comprehensive courses that cover audio engineering though…that makes sense since he does not have one quantitative engineering description of the differences between the players only vague descriptive phrases. If you are proud you completed med school, good for you! Just list yourself as MD in your article title so as not pose as a real audio engineer when reviewing said equipment.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 3:05 PM by Peter Tribermani

Hmm I noticed this site has alot of BD player reviews. When you look deeper, you notice they are using manufacturer photos and giving very brief product summaries. It almost appears as if these reviews are being written without the actual product in hand. I will stick to user experiences on AVS Forum by people that actually own the products that they discuss thank you.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 3:10 PM by thebland

I have read the reviews, have a reference system of my own and would like to see what Lexicon has to say. That said, Jerry is in denial as physically the units are identical (past the aluminum Lexicon chassis). I called out some technical inaccuracies in the **********.com’s review of the Lex and Gene gladly reflected such in the review. No defensiveness at all. Very classy.

That said, the side by side pictures of the uncovered Oppo and Lex players in the **********.com’s review make no doubt what is going on here. Identical physically.

Perhaps Jerry recall’s Stereophile’s 20-25 year old review of Velodyne’s first set of LCRs… and what happened to Velodyne’s big ad dollars after the review was released.

Time to wake up and simply state the Lexicon is simply a cocoon over the competent Oppo BDP-83. You’re hurting your credibility the longer you try and double talk around this charade…


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 3:26 PM by NP

(Medical) Dr Ken, I feel sorry for you man. I’ll see if I can get one of those Men In Black memory erasers for everyone on this thread.

Thanks for renewing my quest for bank-for-the-buck AV equipment… and proving the worthlessness of these esoteric reviews.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 3:27 PM by Curt Palme

It takes positive reviews so a manufacturer continues to spend advertising dollars on a website or magazine. By the looks of the unit, Lex has done nothing to the internals of the Oppo. If this site has spare $$ to throw around, send it my way and I’ll send some special video cable elevators to greatly improve the performance of any BR player…


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 4:41 PM by hollyweird

This is HILARIOUS. Lexi-CON for the loss…Bwahahahaha.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 4:42 PM by Goga

Ken, how much did they ( Lexicon) pay you for this “review”?

You do realize, that because of a few couple of bucks you now look like an a$$.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:22 PM by Jerry Del Colliano

Pete,

Get your facts correct. There is nothing cut and paste about HomeTheaterReview.com vs. AVRev.com. I built them both. HTR is a whole other animal. More and better content. More readers (292k per month vs. 210k with AV - both citing Google Analytics).

Next - with all due respect to Audioholic.com’s readership - they are an ACTUAL STORE. They sell gear. We do not. I don’t know how you can call them a “publication”. They are powerful. Their reach is SOLID. They are worth respect but they are not in the conversation along with HomeTheaterReview.com, HomeTheaterMag.com and many other top AV publications that do not sell AV gear. I am sorry - there is a difference.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:27 PM by Johnny Rotten

The quality of the audioholic.com review and the one on your site shows how quantitative the difference is.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:32 PM by Peter Tribermani

@ Jerry

If you really want to open a pandoras box here, I can link reviews at AVREV to the ones here that are virtually identical only the ones here are watered down. Its interesting that you Diss AVREV now that you don’t own it. Rather than providing proof of legitimacy of your review, you trash the other magazines and publications. This speaks volumes about your character. If I were a manufacturer I wouldn’t advertise here, but then again companies like Lexicon must love you. Just look at the touched up press releases you print for them under the disguise of reviews.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:44 PM by m

Jeff

It certainly is a different conversation when one site can provide technical details and solid evidence… versus… what?
What makes the review above… or this site… standout as superior to a technical dissection of the hardware?

magic ears?

Do you sincerely believe that in the face of such overwhelming evidence, its enough with a review that just throws out colorful metaphors?

How does “Black levels were close, but the Lexicon had a more natural contrast and color palette than the Oppo” stand up to what other reviewers are doing… opening the box and taking photos? Providing frequency analysis charts? Contacting manufacturers… digging up old THX review to see if they still stand.

Other sites are simply doing their job: Journalism.

Against that background… exactly what does the review above give us? What “conversation” is being started by it? Do you honestly believe it is unworthy of other publications… never mind “top AV publications” to verify claims by manufacturers?
To demonstrate technical capability and critical consistency before claiming a product is worth its price tag.

If such sites have such a high standing… then let them demonstrate their integrity by verifying these claims. Starting with hometheaterreview.

Let me throw down a gauntlet: Bring in an unbiased 3rd party. Do your own full double blijnd tests and technical examination. Post the results.

Cheers,

**************


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:45 PM by Jerry Del Colliano

Spoken like someone using a false name and false email address.

Go back to the forum sites where you belong.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:47 PM by jh901

Who is Klaus? Oh, he’s the guy who watches MSNBC and blew over 3 large on a $500 Oppo. That fancy faceplate must “sound” nice.

These comments are fair and balanced…here’s to some hope and change for Lexi-CON.


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:47 PM by jh901

meant to say “Jerry”…sorry Klaus…


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:51 PM by ZZJ

This thread, quite honestly, was the most amusing thing I’ve read in a while (the review was also pretty amusing, audiophiles’ delight)

Everything m said was completely correct; Jerry & (MD) Ken are just digging their site a deeper hole by trying to defend it. It’s the same player as the oppo, + some bits of aluminum. maybe the Al was alloyed with pixie dust?


  • Posted on January 16, 2010 5:59 PM by The-bland-is-a-tool

Wow, on article totally destroys the entire credibility of the entire site. Its over baby, this site is now wearing clown shoes.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX THREAD WIPE ONE; Unflattering comments deleted XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

By Jim
Thanks for the review. You mention that no other player you’ve heard of comes with a calibration disc, but later you mention that you acquired a BDP-83SE for comparison. The BDP-83 (both stock and SE) come with two calibration discs (Spears & Munsil for video and an AIX disc for audio).


Posted on January 15, 2010 8:32 AM By bell

wow.nazi style censorship is now under way.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:23 PM By Jerry Del Colliano
Please post only constructive comments on HomeTheaterReview.com.
Flames will not be tolerated from users, AV companies or beyond.
If you have an opinion on the player and or other players - please keep it constructive and feel free to post. If not please flame elsewhere.
Many thanks for your understanding.
Jerry


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:26 PM By Wmacky
Wow


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:27 PM By Hollyweird
Funny, because there were SEVERAL constructive comments that were just deleted by you. You are complicit in perpetuating a scam and disallowing anyone from warning potential buyers of the Lexi-CON going on with this player and your un-critical review.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:31 PM By ZZJ
Yay censorship!


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:31 PM By Chris
Unbelieveable…all the negative, critical comments (which all happened to be based on FACT) were taken down by Jerry…what a joke.
I saved the HTML pages for this review many times over the course of the day, so I have the history of all the comments that were removed.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:32 PM By Curt Palme
Truth? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
The deletion of the many posts above shows to me that this site is on the take from manufacturers and can’t give a legitimate review of any product. 'Nuff said.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:32 PM By Curt Palme
Truth? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
The deletion of the many posts above shows to me that this site is on the take from manufacturers and can’t give a legitimate review of any product. 'Nuff said.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:34 PM By thebland
You can’t delete the reality of the poster’s opinions here of your review…
I have read the reviews, have a reference system of my own and would like to see what Lexicon has to say. That said, Jerry is in denial as physically the units are identical (past the aluminum Lexicon chassis). I called out some technical inaccuracies in the **********.com’s review of the Lex and Gene gladly reflected such in the review. No defensiveness at all. Very classy.
That said, the side by side pictures of the uncovered Oppo and Lex players in the **********.com’s review make no doubt what is going on here. Identical physically.
Perhaps Jerry recall’s Stereophile’s 20-25 year old review of Velodyne’s first set of LCRs… and what happened to Velodyne’s big ad dollars after the review was released.
Time to wake up and simply state the Lexicon is simply a cocoon over the competent Oppo BDP-83. You’re hurting your credibility the longer you try and double talk around this charade…


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:35 PM By fud
Curt Palme is FOS


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:35 PM By martmann
Wow, indeed.
There are lots of ways to handle this issue, you have handled it wrong in almost every way, deleting comments (not even ‘flames’ like you accuse, but legitimate comments) in the way you just have, will not bode well for you site, and in fact will have the oppo-site effect.
You must really have no respect at all for your readers.
Good luck with that.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:35 PM
By the_bland
You can’t delete the reality of the poster’s opinions here of your review…
I have read the reviews, have a reference system of my own and would like to see what Lexicon has to say. That said, Jerry is in denial as physically the units are identical (past the aluminum Lexicon chassis). I called out some technical inaccuracies in the **********.com’s review of the Lex and Gene gladly reflected such in the review. No defensiveness at all. Very classy.
That said, the side by side pictures of the uncovered Oppo and Lex players in the **********.com’s review make no doubt what is going on here. Identical physically.
Perhaps Jerry recall’s Stereophile’s 20-25 year old review of Velodyne’s first set of LCRs… and what happened to Velodyne’s big ad dollars after the review was released.
Time to wake up and simply state the Lexicon is simply a cocoon over the competent Oppo BDP-83. You’re hurting your credibility the longer you try and double talk around this charade…


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:36 PM By CurtPalme
Hey fud, at least I don’t hide behind a false facade like you do.
Everyone knows that sites like this rely on advertising from manufacturers to keep going, but to try and snow the public has worse results than losing one advertiser. The review is skewed and false, and the deletion of many comments by the moderator here shows that this site is not out to serve the public, it’s simply here to make the owners money. This is the first time I’ve visited this site, and it simply has no credibility with me.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:44 PM By Peter Tribermani
If it isn’t too much trouble to ask, can the good Doctor please post a pic of his Lexicon BD-30 and Oppo BDP-83SE here so we can see his review units? Thanks.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:45 PM By m
Jerry… I would sincerely ask you to rethink what you have just done.

In fairness the agression was on your part… I feel mny points were constructive and to the point. they dealt with the issue at hand, and offered a counterpoint, based on other freely available material on the internet, to the review.
You called me a shill… used the word BllSHIT to describe what i had to say.
ANd you claimed my posts were part of a conspiracy - demanding my personal information, as to post anoymously was beneath your integrity.
[U]
********[/U]
Please bring my posts back.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:45 PM By ZZJ
http://zzj.itf-inc.com/downloads/lolhtrthread.html
^ for great justice.
http zzj.itf-inc.com slash downloads slash lolhtrthread.html


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:45 PM By hometheaterreviewlostmyclicks
Wow indeed, this is shocking. A massive amount of comments have been deleted arguing that this player is nothing but an Oppo BDP-83 with a Lexicon wrapper at $2500 more. This is the internet, I’m sure those comments (and this whole scandal) will pop up on some other a/v reviewer’s site sooner or later.
Don’t kill rats on your ship by shooting holes in hull.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:46 PM By Bob
When you can’t win an argument based on merit and/or facts you either admit defeat graciously or you stick your head in the sand and deny the whole thing happened in the first place.


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:50 PM By foo
I’m saving the complete html for this page every 5 mins, because I’m sure this whole page is coming down pretty soon. :slight_smile:


Posted on January 16, 2010 6:50 PM By Vancouver
The denial is amazing, and sets a whole new standard to stubborn I have never seen. I mean everyone knows the trueth and agrees, yet the site owner and review stand strong on their BS. I read posts from thebland correcting Gene and he it was handled with class. He corrected it and moved on.
Here everyone is wrong and if you dont agree your opinions get deleted. Hilarious.
At first respect was lost for Lexicon, now this site is going down with the ship.


WIPED AGAIN…[/B]
:cool::cool:


#9

Here’s a podcast interview with an editor at Audioholics, interesting interview.


#10

More spin…
http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-listen-lexicon-bd-30-universal-blu-ray-player