LDW-411S stopped reading most blank media

Hi, I have been using the following media just fine for burning and today about 95% of my blanks for each of these stopped reading and the drive is making slightly audible noise trying to read the disk. (Small swishing noises and little clicks, nothing like the rough sounds my PS2 makes reading disks or the thunks that happen when a HDD skips a head)

With a few of the disks, ejecting it and re-inserting it a few times fixed the problem, and once it was written had no errors


        Drive Type = DVD DUAL 
         Disc Type = DVD-R                
          Disc MID = 47 53 43 30 30 32 (GSC002)
          Disc TID = 00 00 00 00 00 00 (......)
  Nominal Capacity = 4.38GB
Manufacturer Maybe = Gigastorage Corporation
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 4.0X (Write)

is now reading as


        Drive Type = DVD DUAL 
         Disc Type = DVD-R                
Manufacturer Maybe = Unknown
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 0.0X (Write)

and


        Drive Type = DVD DUAL 
         Disc Type = DVD+R (Single Layer)
          Disc MID = 4F 50 54 4F 44 49 53 43 (OPTODISC)
          Disc TID = 4F 50 31 (OP1)
  Nominal Capacity = 4.38GB
Manufacturer Maybe = Opto Disc
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 2.4X (Write)

is reading as


        Drive Type = DVD DUAL 
         Disc Type = UNKNOWN              
          Material = Cyanine
           Lead In = 00:00:00
          Lead Out = 00:00:00
  Nominal Capacity = -0.29MB
Manufacturer Maybe = (null)
SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 19X (Write)

is this something wrong with my drive or with my media?

Thanks

edit: Also, if anyone can help, my burst rate is only 5.71 MB/s, I have Ultra DMA 2 - Ultra33 on my DVD-RW and I can choose UDMA 1/2/3, Multi-Word DMA 0/1/2 or PIO

Where to start. It doesn’t look good, does it. :sad:

1/ Can you try the drive in another system? This would quickly eliminate a lot of possiblities, like the IDE interface and cable. But try another cable if you have one.
2/ Do you have a lens cleaning disc? Just in case something has ended up on the lens.
3/ Has anything changed in your system? Software or hardware.
4/ Try the drive on it own, as the secondary master.

See how that lot goes…

1 - I’ll try tomorrow. I have an USB 2.0 shell I can put it in.
2 - Already tried, no luck
3 - Nothing has changed really. I was burning fine earlier in the day, then it stopped reading media.
4 - Will try that tomorrow too

I’ll post back with results

I really don’t like the sound it is making, just upgraded my IDE controller (nforce3) and instead of those messages I was getting when the disks weren’t working, it is now telling me that no media is inserted. Hope it isn’t dieing :frowning:

Nope, best not too. Keep it handy, on the IDE/ATAPI bus. :wink:

BTW, defrag your HDD and try to remove existing IDE/ATAPI drivers if nVidia/nForce and install your XP (default) ones. Search, you will find a guide. :cool:

after you get your burst rate fixed i would get some better media.

GSC002 & optodisc are not good media, did you get these from dvdrsales? branded fortis & intenso?

Yes the USB 2.0 shell is a good idea for trying it off the IDE bus and then it can also be tested on another system that has USB, to elimiate driver problems.

Might also pay to try reflashing the firmware, just in case…

Well, the drive lost something and I don’t know what

Trying it in other computers won’t work, upgrading firmware won’t work. I don’t know why it won’t read blank DVD±Rs anymore

I just tried CD-Rs and it works fine reading and writing

The Optodisk media I have are LiquidVideo DVD+Rs from Circuit City (they worked fine all summer)
The GSC002 DVD-Rs are from PioData (this online place ripped me off, I ordered Ritek disks and they send me these 3 months after I ordered, any time I called I got this Indian dude who couldn’t speak coherent english :frowning: ) and these worked all summer also

So I am probably looking into buying a new DVD±RW drive. I like the Lite-Ons and I would like something that will burn these disks. I have 38 optos and 40 gscs left.

Should I get another 411s and see if it burns them or should I upgrade to a 811s or another brand?

Thanks

Hmm, one thing I haven’t checked is if the Media will work on other DVD burners. I am going to try that. I hope I haven’t gotten faulty media.

Any reccomendations on compatible, cheap 4x media?

Prodisc +r are good cheap discs.

I’m afraid your drive is dead. I had the same with my LDW-411S, clicking and swishing noises. It’s the laser calibration procedure that’s running mad, because the laser can’t focus anymore on DVD’s. It will still read and write CD’s and even read some DVD’s, but you can forget writing. And you will never get it working again, unless you replace the laser pickup. My advice: buy a new one. If you insist on using cheap media (also called ‘crap’), buy a NEC burner. Preferrably the 2500/2510. Not all burns will be OK, because bad media after all still are bad media. But it won’t be killed when trying. Btw, this is not a commercial for NEC! If you like LiteOn, buy one! But don’t use crappy media in it, unless you want a new drive every few months.

@Squirrel

Why would a NEC 2500/2510 be better than the NEC 3500 in this case ??
Do you think LiteOn drives go bad if you’d use low quality media ?

It’s less sensitive to bad media and more speedhacks are available to burn 4x or even 2x media at 8x. I had a 2510 and it could burn more media at 8x than my 3500.

Not always, and not all of them. But you don’t know which ones do and which ones don’t. The more low quality media you use, the bigger the change that some damage will be done to your drive. Just browse the forum and find many examples. Btw, low quality media do no good to no drive, not just LiteOn. It’s just that LiteOn is a bit more sensitive.

Wow, I never knew poor media could ruin a drive, what should I do with all this poor media I have?

Once burned, there’s no danger for your drives anymore. I’m not completely sure about the exact cause, but here’s my guess: during the burning proces, the laser has to be continuously refocused. The worse the media, the more this happens and the larger the focus adaptations. This puts an extra load on the springs which hold the lens. I think in particular LiteOn’s Smartburn procedure even increases this, although other manufacturers are using like procedures. At the long term, the springs can’t stand the load and wear out. When the springs are worn, it’s getting harder and harder to keep the lens in focus. The first moment you encounter this is in the relatively sensitive DVD writing process. Reading DVD’s and reading and writing CD’s is less sensitive, so this could still work for a while.

I don’t know if this applies to all LiteOn models, but at least the 401 based models (401S, 411S and 811S) are involved.

Well, that was quite informative

I would really like to get through this cheaper media before I buy new DVDs, but I don’t want to kill another burner trying to get through them. Should I just toss this media or are there burners in the same price range as the Lite-On 401 series that are more resilient to this wear and tear?

Someone recomended the NEC 2500/2510

I found a barebone 2500A for $61 and a barebone 2510A for $60

Which one is a better buy?

I also found a barebone 3500A for $71

Squirrel says the 2500/2510 is better for ‘crap’ media but would I be better off in the long run to get a dual layer burner?

The 2500 and the 2510 are technically identical, they only differ in firmware. You can flash any 2510 firmware to the 2500 and have a double layer 8x burner. Or you can buy a 2510 and flash it with Herrie’s 2k5107v2b5dl, which is basically a 2500 firmware, but with double layer capabilities. The last is what I did when I had a 2510, because at that moment the 2510 firmware was not very efficient on some media. So if you buy a 2500 or a 2510, you have a double layer capable burner. The 2510 supports it straight from the box, the 2500 needs to be flashed with the right firmware.

The 3500 is very good burner too, and should be seriously considered because of the 16x capabilities, which you’ll want to use for sure in the near future. And it can handle your bad media very well. The main difference is that, with Herrie’s f/w, you can burn bad media at a higher speed and still be able to read them in most players.

If you do not stick to NEC, you could also consider Plextor or Pioneer, they’re also very good.

In addition, as far as I remember, I didn’t read much about hardware related problems with the LiteOn x51/x12/x32/x33 drives. Most posts refer to 401/411/811. So these newer drives may be better. But if you want to be sure, search the forum. I didn’t :slight_smile: Maybe I can add some information soon, because I’m planning to buy a second hand 451. Mainly for PI/PO scanning, which my NEC doesn’t handle, but I’m planning to cross-flash it to 832 and stress-test it a lot!

Ok, one last thing before I buy a 3500A

My burst rate on my lite-on drive is terrible, 5.71 Mb/s and I read most people get 25+Mb/s

my drives are set up like this
Channel 0: M: HDD, S: Lite-On DVD +/-RW
Channel 1: M: HDD, S: Toshiba DVD-ROM

I also have my nForce 3 IDE installed

Should I do something to my setup to get a better burst rate, I see a lot of people with thier secondary channel having the burner as master and a reader as slave, but back when I did this with CD burners, if I tried to do anything on the fly or if I even inserted a disk in the reader while burning something, the burn would crash, has this changed with DVD burners?

Thanks

Burning on-the-fly is never a good idea. If there are scratches, fingerprints, dust or something on the source disk, the reading drive will need too much time to produce the data needed. This results in buffer underruns and if the delay is long enough, you’ll get a coaster, even with buffer underrun protections. Therefore I’d like to advise you always to use your harddisk as a buffer.

In that light, I’ll advise you to change your configuration. Put the harddisks on the first IDE, master and slave. Make the LDW your secondary master and the Toshiba secondary slave. Make sure you installed the latest nForce3 drivers. In this configuration, you should be able to reach the 25 MB/s mark painless… Anyway, this is how my system is also configured. I don’t have a shining m/b with fast processor, just an Athlon XP 1600+ on an ECS K7S5A board but I do reach such figures. And for any burner faster than 4x, you’ll need it! Burning at 8x requires a steady data transfer rate of over 11 MBps, and 16x doubles this!

However, transferrates have nothing to do with your blank media problems. When you insert any disc, the drive tries to recognize it and focus/calibrate on it. It doesn’t need the computer for this, in fact you can even pull the data cable and it still works. So when your drive doesn’t recognize the media and cleaning the lens doesn’t help, it’s probably broken.