Layer Break with Main Movie?

vbimport

#1

Hello im just wondering about how the DL layer break function in clonedvd is used when you only include the main movie to be ripped???
I heard that clonedvd makes its own layerbreak when ripping, well if you only include the main movie then what does clonedvd do? Would the layer break be on the main movie, where is the layer break on the original???

Also do different burning programs handle layer breaks differently(in other words if i used clonecd to rip and it preserved the original layer break, then i used clonedvd to burn, would it mess the layer break up???


#2

mikej3131,
I would have just asked this on your first thread, but then again, it is CloneDVD specific … so ok then …

Also do different burning programs handle layer breaks differently(in other words if i used clonecd to rip and it preserved the original layer break, then i used clonedvd to burn, would it mess the layer break up???
Yes, to answer your question, but “mess up” is the wrong term to use. The automatic (but unoriginal) layer break placed by CloneDVD works very well in most cases.

You have to change your thinking a little and decide something. Do you want to make an exact 1:1 backup of the original disk (nothing removed) or do you want to copy movie only. The two different programs (CloneDVD and CloneCD) are designed for two different purposes. If you want 1:1 with the original layer break, you can’t remove any title-sets or tracks from the original (which is the purpose of a non-transcoder like CloneCD). Also, since CloneDVD [I]is[/I] a trancoder, by it’s very nature it is [I]has[/I] to choose it’s own placement of the layer break even if nothing is removed. Can’t change that, that’s what transcoders do.

So, having established that using a transcoder program that allows for the removal of anything (even if you didn’t), it [I]requires[/I] that a shift in the layer break be made, I suggest that if you are making a DL backup, you might as well use a non-transcoder, like CloneCD, to make a 1:1 mirror because space is not an issue with DL. I.E., you are not compressing onto a single layer media so you don’t need to remove anything to get the best quality of 100% non-compression.

If you don’t want to watch the extras or play foriegn soundtracks etc included on a 1:1 CloneCD backup then just don’t watch them. But if you want a mirror of the originals layer break, you have to use CloneCD (or other non-transcoder software).

BTW: AnyDVD features can be set to allow you to bypass “Annoying Adverts” or bypass “warning screens” etc when you play your backup made 1:1 with CloneCD. This feature of AnyDVD definately allows you to use the [B]>>[/B]| chaper jump button to bypass anything and get to the menu. Originals don’t let you jump past the stupid stuff (it’s a user prohibited “feature” of originals).

Having just mentioned menus, I’ll also suggest that if you decide to use CloneDVD because you want the movie only on DL, be sure you include the menus (“Preserve Menus” selection). Your automatic CloneDVD layer breaks should work fine on most backups. But If you don’t include the menu’s, you may find out your backup’s default audio and subtitle tracks don’t work. Some DVD’s are authored so the tracks are matrixed through the Menu structure. Just a little warning to save you making a second, working backup.

Also, use only Vervatim DL+R media and booktype/bitset it.

Give this thread a read-through.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=172204&highlight=mirror
The cdf “Search” feature will turn up a wealth of information that has already been posted. When you need to solve a problem, Search is the first place to look for a solution.

Best regards,
Whisperer


#3

deleted cause whisper1 beat me to it.


#4

hobo10,
do you still have the post in “clipboard memory”. Go ahead and post … I’m sure mikej3131 appreciates different viewpoints. :iagree:


#5

I must not have been to clear on my questions in this thread also lol.Ok i have different goals for different movies thats why i asked those specific questions. so let me make it clearer :

My first goal is to just rip the main movie on my dual layer DVD that i have. Now my question to that is, does the ripping process on clonedvd mess with the layer break when i just have it set to rip the main movie (in other words, where is the layer break, does it even have to touch the layer break, is the layer break even on the main movie or is it on the subtitles)

My next goal is i want my steelers super bowl dvd(DL) to be a 1:1 copy so im going to use clonecd to rip it to the HD. After i rip it to the HD i would like to burn it with clonedvd(because i get good burns with clonedvd). Now comes my second question. Is clonedvd’s burn/write process going to mess with the 1:1 copy of Steelers Super bowl i have on the HD.(in other words, when it burns this 1:1 copy to dvd is it going to take out the original layer break) because i only thought clonedvd does that when you rip it.


#6

if you “rip” the main movie then the layerbreak is lost.
so why waste a dl when you can just use a regular sl if you want a movie only.

yes [I]clonedvd[/I] will take out the original layerbreak. it doesn’t matter if you rip with [I]clonecd[/I] or whatever. clonedvd doesn’t, will not, can not retain the original layerbreak.


#7

mikej3131,
Sorry, I thought I did answer it

Main movie always because it is the biggest title set. Audio and Sub tracks just follow the movie break because they are actually part of the main title. The layer break will change with CloneDVD. The other smaller tracks are just juggled, by the DVD authoring company, to fit on the two layers depending on available space left after the movie split (so to speak)

I believe it will change. If you rip 1:1 with CloneCD, burn it with CloneCD. Trancoders don’t do 1:1. I don’t think CloneDVD can be used as a simple “burning engine” although I will default to any further answers given by Slysoft or Elby team members. Member Tru also knows alot about this stuff if he drops in.

Best regards,
Whisperer


#8

hobo10,
Hah! … you got here first this time! Agree on everything except your interpretation of why mike wants the movie only on DL … it is too big to fit on one disk…

… and he doesn’t want any level of compression. Me either, compression is unacceptable to me. But mike just can’t have the best of both worlds from one program. :disagree:

In simple talk, when one speaks of 1:1, it is referring to a copy of the entire DVD original disk. You can’t have a 1:1 of the movie only … that’s transcoding, which by definition, cannot mirror.

Whisperer


#9

whisperer1
oh man…i dropped the ball on that one…i haven’t backedup any movies these last couple of months on sl media. as the last couple of months dl’s have been on sale.


#10

hello all…

I had a thread going a week ago re layer break hanging which was answered well. As a result I used dvd decrypter to rip the whole movie and then used Clone DVD to burn the iso image. I can tell you that the two I have done since then has a very minor glitch when you watch it on the dvd player. I think the glitch is about half way or where I suppose the layer break would be…!

Now that I know as a result of reading this thread [B]NOT[/B] to use [U]Clone DVD [/U] to burn the image I will now use decrypter to also write the iso file and see how it goes.

I always thought that the burn engine on decrypter was not as good as the latest Clone DVD but hey who knows?

Thanks for the help and suggestions I’ll let you know how it goes next few days.


#11

Seven of Nine,
I know i am repeating myself but I just wanted to express in different words that there is nothing non-functional about CloneDVD’s DL backup results. It is just [I]not[/I] the correct software to choose for avoiding what you referred to as “a glitch about half way” through playback. It [I]is[/I] the correct software to choose if your objective is to fit a long “movie-only” (extras titles & unwanted sound & subtitle tracks removed) that still won’t fit onto a SL backup disk without compression onto a DL backup disk at 100% quality. (or, of course, if your objective is to compress a movie onto a SL 4.7GB disk or split a movie onto two SL disks)

When an original DVD movie is authored for mass pressing, they place the layer break position at a “quiet point” in the movie. Like when there is a still scenic or when a scene “fades out to black”. There is a “glitch”, as you called it, [I]also present[/I] on your original DVD movie. It is just that the glitch occurs in a less noticeable part of the movie. There [I]has[/I] to be transition of about a second, when the laser beam refocuses from layer#1 down to layer#2 and begins playing that layer. But you just don’t notice it because a human decided where to tactfully place the break.

When CloneDVD places it’s automatic layer break, it is (I believe) at the end of the chapter closest to the “real” original DVD’s layer break. Without regard for “tact”. So the break could occur at a “motion point” or even an “action point” in the movie in which the laser beam layer transition time of perhaps 1 second is [I]much[/I] more noticible than the original DVD’s transition.

The “glitch” you speak of on a CloneDVD DL backup

… the two I have done since then has a very minor glitch when you watch it on the dvd player. I think the glitch is about half way or where I suppose the layer break would be…!
is not really a glitch, it is a normal transition to the second layer. You just don’t like where the transition occurs. And that is why many perfectionists (like you and I) don’t choose a transcoder software like CloneDVD for burning DL movies. A transcoder is not designed to copy (1:1) the layer break. It’s function is to remove unwanted titles and sound tracks and then transcode the remaining titles via compression to a SL disk, split the movie onto two disks or transcode the remaining titles onto a DL disk. Keeping the original layer break would be useless and non functional on a DL media backup because of all the empty data space remaining from removed titles. A new layer break that will work with the reduced data space has to be implemented or you might get long periods of black screen or a freeze up. [I]Even if you remove no titles[/I], a transcoder can’t make use of the original’s layer break … period. It is not possible [I]and[/I] it is not necessary. Because it is the [I]wrong software[/I] to choose for this purpose.
… I always thought that the burn engine on decrypter was not as good as the latest Clone DVD but hey who knows?..
CloneDVD’s burn engine is just fine. But, as you discovered, for your purpose, DVD Decrypter, in ISO mode, is not a transcoder, and is the [I]correct software[/I] to use for keeping the nearly invisible original layer break transitions. Clone[B]CD[/B] also does just as good a job as DVD-D making a 1:1 backup preserving the original, human chosen, “tactful” break point.

Whisperer


#12

@SevenofNine

DVD Decrypter is not the best BURN engline for DL media. ImgBurn, however is very good, it’s free, and it looks exactly like dvd decrypter without the decrypting part…

i always use DVDD to rip (with anydvd in background) and ImgBurn to burn.

many use clonedvd for DL without problems, but that’s just never the path i got into.

I will probably purchase clonecd in the near future, but this will act exactly as DVD Decrypter does with DL media.


#13

I will probably purchase clonecd in the near future, but this will act exactly as DVD Decrypter does with DL media.

So reasonsnotrules, you wont use clonecd to burn then? do you think i should use imgburn when burning DL media?

if you “rip” the main movie then the layerbreak is lost.
so why waste a dl when you can just use a regular sl if you want a movie only.

I thought the layer break was on the main movie so it wouldnt be lost then right?

Ok so say if my situation is reversed and i do want to go this route and burn the main movie off of a DL original dvd that was ripped with clonedvd onto a SL media. My question is what would happen to the layer break when burning onto single layer? would they just not use the layer break that was put in by clonedvd when being ripped to the HD(because a layer break wouldnt be needed on a SL Disk?


#14

if you rip with clonecd, burn with clonecd.

if you rip with dvd decrypter, burn with Imgburn.

at the moment, i don’t own clonecd…

i was just saying that an image ripped and burned with clonecd would handle the layer break exactly the same as an image ripped with DVDD and burned with ImgBurn.


#15

clarify this please

EDIT: nm i think i get it.

you have an original DL disc and want to burn just the main movie to SL media?

you don’t need a layer break since it’s SL. Clonedvd removes the layer break.


#16

yeah thats it thanks. so if im ripping the main movie with original DL Media then i am burning to a SL Media, no matter what, all burning software wil recognize im using SL media and will remove the layer break because i am burning to single layer and single layers do not use layer breaks?


#17

sort of.

it’s the transcoder (or program in which you’re doing the processing even if you don’t have to transcode…like when there’s 100% quality) that removes the layer break.

it doesn’t automatically “know” what your target size is. you have to tell it (like on the page in clonedvd2 where you see all of the avialable titlesets, the dropdown at the bottom is your output size selector)


#18

How about this. ok here is the link to my optical drive.
http://support.gateway.com/s/PC/9310Series/TMETS-H552B/TMETS-H552Bsp2.shtml

it says this about media compatibility

4.7/9/10/18 G DVD-Single / Dual (PTP, OTP) (Read Only)

what is 18G dvd-single. are there 18 gigs of disc out there and does this mean i can use them?

then it says this under format compatibility

DVD-R (Book 2.0, 4.7G) - General and Authoring

Does that measn i can only author with dvd-r media. it does not say General and Authoring for dvd+r DL

And does anybody know if there is a forum for my specific drive. i saw that there is a forum for ts-h552b samsung drives and thats what i have. But it is also a toshiba, i am confused, is this like a mix of two different drives?


#19

ummm i have no idea what any of that means, and i wouldn’t recommend taking info on a drive from a reseller. find the specs on the actual drive, like here: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/163


#20

oh ok i fully understand now. if i specify a target size that is at or below the dvd-r 4.7 gigs then it removes the layer break. if i specify a target size that is above then it either preserves the original or puts in its own estimated guess of a layer break.