Karaoke CD+G

Thought I would give some explanation, as time to time, some have questions on this subject

Karaoke is simple, yet really confusing … In one forum, some one wanted to know how to find karaoke mp3g files on line … Maybe my inexperience, but I have never even heard of mp3g karaoke yet alone find such on line, nor have I heard of finding karaoke mp3+G files on line … The Karaoke’s that I am familiar with are those discussed below

CD+G Karaoke - - - This is really a specially burned CD and not a file… The CD+G notation means Music plus Graphics … If you put his CD into your computer and look at the files thereon, they look just like an ordinary music-CD fles, yet when played in a CD+G player one sees graphics along with the music … One uses software like Dart Karaoke to add synchronized lyrics to a Wav file … (Most karaoke softwares work with Wav files and not Mp3’s, though some new Softwares now tout Mp3 capability) … The Wav and the synchronized Lyrics-display are two separate files … One ultimately creates a Bin-Cue file from these two separate files and this Bin-Cue has to be burned to a CD to play the karaoke on an extermal karaoke player … Use CDRWin 3.9c to burn the Bin-Cue files, or better yet use the newer Alcohol 120% or CD-Mate softwares … (To burn, one loads the Cue file not the Bin file)

Kar files - - - This is another form of Karaoke … But I am not familar with using such … Believe it is a newer version of Karaoke files … (It is mentioned in the Help-FAQ for the software DelMp3) … Have not seen these type files on the Internet as yet, but then not many Karaoke softwares handle these as yet

Video Files - - - This seem the popular way to go nowadays as one can create a simple VCD (Video CD) and avoid the expensive karaoke players of the past … One uses something like the DelMp3 Karaoke software to synchronize the lyrics with the music and create a display on the Computer monitor … Then one uses software like Techsmith’s Camtasia Studio to capture the Monitor screen and make it into a video file … Ultimately, one has several karaoke Video music files, that can be burned to a CD … I wound-up preferring DelMp3 because of its exactness of synchronization.

Warning - - - There are two ways to synchronize the lyrics to the music … Dart’s method is to sync the lyrics to the wave form, but this way is not that stable, as closing-&-reopening often loses the sync … DelMp3’s method is to sync to a time axis and this works beautifully, as long as you do not thereafter trim seconds off the music to get a group of such Karaokes to fit on the Video CD … I had trouble with Dart, I would get the music and lyrics all synchronized, then save the work, only to find-out next day that I had to re-do tha works again … Perhaps the only proper way to save in Dart is to immediately convert the two separate files (music & sync-ed lyrics) into a Bin-Cue file before closing Dart

Time & Technique - - - It is very, very time consuming to get the music and lyrics synchronized … One can spend hours per song, depending on how good one wants the final product … Dragging out a syllable to make it fit the music is tedious … Often, I would use Goldwave to expand and make visible the Wav file … Goldwave (its player and its capability for waveform viewing) made it easy for me to see where the individual words of each phrase occurred, and how long some syllables were stretched-out … Dart has a Wav file expansion-visibility graph, but it sure is not good as that of Goldwave and I found Dart’s display awkward to use … DelMp3’s main drawback was the lack of a Wav-form display and I had to use Goldwave along-with DelMp3

Burner needed - - - Making CD-Disks of the CD+G type requires a CD-Burner so capable … Not all burners can do this, particularly so if your burner is a few years old … Check your burner capability at w_w_w.padus.com … Another site to check your cd-burner capability is at … w_w_w.elby.ch/en/products/clone_cd/index.html

External player - - - Also check to see how good your external player is … One can use a $50 Norcent DP300 player from Wal-Mart or use a $60 CyberHome CD-DVD 500 … (CyberHome model 400 works and is cheaper … I bought four for $35 each, and passed them-on to relatives-friends) …These players will also play just about any kind of CD or DVD one can make on the computer, excluding DVD-Ram disks … I have use all three for playing CD+G, VCDs, and SVCDs… See following site for the capability of various players… w_w_w.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php

Other Karaoke softwares - -
Karaoke Kit…Seems very good, but I have not used it as yet - - w_w_w.bernclare.com/Free.htm
Karaoke Dream 1.49
Karaoke Builder Studio 3.0.066

Did some more reading and have more info on Karaoke

CD+G - - - - - - -
The most accurate description would be say this refers to a Karaoke CD, which contains both Music and Lyrics, and can be played in some external CD+G Karaoke Player. This is a special CD that contains packets of data telling the Karaoke Player what Graphics to display as the music progresses. Most new Computer CD-Recorders probably will make these special CDs, but some older CD-burners may just not work. There also appears to be some difference in CD+G capable burners. The Padus site indicates some CD-burners have direct CD+G capability, while the Elby site indicates some CD-burners can do CD+G only because of their RAW data capability. The Dart Karaoke site also has CD-burner capability data.

CD+G - - - - - - - Another description per Dart Karaoke - - -
The CD+G is an important CD standard for Karaoke applications because it allows CD audio and special graphics to be stored on a five-inch standard disc, primarily for Karaoke players. CD+G formatted CDs require a special Karaoke player and a TV set to reproduce CD audio and graphics. Graphics in this case refer to Karaoke style word displays, where words to a song appear on a colored background and change color in synch with the music track to guide singers. A typical CD+G disc contains 4 to 18 songs. When these discs are played in regular audio CD players, the graphic information is simply ignored

.cdg ( .kok) - - - - - - -
These files are specific to the software that one is using. Karaoke Builder Studio CD+G uses the .cdg file. Believe Dart Karaoke also uses the .cdg file. DeLMp3 Karaoke uses the.kok file. These files do NOT contain any audio information, thus will NOT play in Winamp, and are relatively small files because of the lack of any audio. They only contain the graphics information, the pictures and lyrics. These files can NOT be written to a CD disk, and then played in some external CD+G Karaoke Player

Mp3+G - - - - - - -
This denotes a pair of files - - - say Jingle Bells.mp3 - - and - - Jingle Bells.cdg. Both files have the same name, but different ending tags. They can NOT be written to a CD disk and then played in some external CD+G Karaoke Player.

As to the music

.WAV - - - - - - -
A 4 minute song amounts to about 40 MBytes, approximately. This is what you get when you rip a music CD, and store the files on your hard drive. One would normally say they are exactly the same as on the CD. (Not exactly, as CD and HD have different file formats, but lets say close enough)

.Mp3 - - - - - - - (considering 128 Bitrate here) - - -
A 4 minute song amounts to about 4 MBytes, approximately. Psychological-Acoustic filtering (so-called Mp3 encoding process) was applied to the above WAV file to trash & discard (can’t get it back) all those sounds that the experts say we can not hear anyway. For example, two loud sounds occurring a fraction of a second apart, the second sound 6 dB down (half as loud) means that the average person can not hear the second sound at all (ear rings a little and needs recovery time) - - - so they simply trash the second sound. There is no way in the world, via Fourier or Wavelet Transforms or whatever, that one can squash a 40Mb music file to a 4Mb music file - - - except by trashing a lot of signal, hopefully only that which you can not hear (so the originators of the Mp3 say). This signal loss is good reason why one should not convert Mp3’s to Wav’s to Mp3’s more than necessary as one loses something at each wav-to-mp3 conversion.

Another, but I know nothing of these

.midi and .Kar
The midi is the music and the Kar is the graphics info. As of now, I do not know of any software devoted to making CD+G disks of this combination

To create a CD+G disk, that one can play in some external CD+G Karaoke Player, one combines the cdg and wav files into a bin file. Both Dart Karaoke and the Karaoke Builder Studio CD+G allow one to combine these two files into a Bin file. It is the Bin file that gets burned to the CD. What the Bin file does is load the music onto the CD, load small directory packets say, and load the graphics onto the CD. The external CD+G Karaoke Player reads the small directory packets for information on what graphics are to be displayed at each moment

Playing karaoke on the computer is a little different. As of now, these Computer Karaoke Players do not read CD+G disks. The Computer Karaoke Players are aimed at using the .cdg and .Wav files stored on the hard-drive to play Karaoke. The newer Computer Players use mp3s, meaning the paired files - - Jingle Bells.mp3 - - and - - Jingle Bells.cdg.

I have a few .kar files, they are Karaoke MIDIs. With later velrsions of Winamp they will display the lyrics in a pop up window and there is also the Vanbasco Karaoke MIDI Player which will provide proper coloured karaoke screen so that you can sing along to the MIDIs, also this software allows you to mess about with the MIDI’s, eg upping the tempo, changing the song upkey etc. Although it’s not karaoke anyone who liked the Final Fantasy VII soundtrack will probably still be a fan of MIDI.
You could get a truckload of MIDI’s onto a CD-R.

Thanks guys, good stuff :slight_smile:

Bill - - About the Kar files you have. 1) About what size is a typical Kar file ??? 2) Does the Kar file come paired with a Midi ???

I never got into the Midi’s. Somehow, their sound has always kind-of-annoyed me, and I never looked further. Nothing new here, as some speakers (Bose, KLH, to mention a few) have likewise always annoyed me and I could never stand listening to them for any length of time.

FutureProof - - relative to your sub-notes on burners. I just added new burners to my system. The Lite-On and LG-Electronics, both 48x24x48-16DVD. And the Plextor 48x24x48. So far, the LG has been really impressive, and I got another to use elswhere

I was surprised to find that the Plextor was inferior to the other two relative to copying protected CD’s. The Plextor’s advantage may be in burning music and videos, meaning durability and less burn errors. But, according to the ratings at the Elby CloneCD Web site, both the Lite-On and the LG are four-sheep burners, meaning the best one can get. There is at best maybe six Manufacturers who make four-sheep burners nowadays.

The Toshiba SD-M1502 and the 1302 are also excellent. Though (to me) a little outdated and slow relative to the Lite_on and LG. Toshiba is puzzling as they have not done much in the way of new burners recently, but perhaps concentrating on CD-DVD drives due to the low prices of CD-burners

Note - - CloneCD uses the Sheep Icon. The Elby CloneCD Web site rates burners with the sheep icon. Two sheep in the right-column is a mandatory requirement of a good burner
h**p://www.elby.ch/en/products/clone_cd/index.html

Another comment, that I had forgotten - - - Years ago, the Plextor was without doubt the best CD-burner on the market, as it could copy anything anyone placed on a CD. Then somewhere in 1999-2000, the author of CloneCD claimed that some hidden agreement had occurred between Plextor, Teac, TDK and the Music-&-Game producers as the Plextor-Teac-TDK CD-burners would no longer copy some protected CDs. In fact, the CloneCd author used a new Plextor and showed that it would not copy some specific Game-CD. But, he then flashed the Plextor with an old firmware (no longer available at the Plextor site) and showed that the very same Plextor burner would then copy the Game-CD perfectly. Right now, my suggestion would be to avoid any CD-burners made in USA, Europe, or Japan if you want a versatile CD-burner

Hi! This is my first post to this forum. I hope I’m in the right place, if not, someone kindly direct me to it!

I own and operate a karaoke service utilizing CDGs. Some time ago, a number of my origibal CDs were stolen. Since they were the original DK series, and out of print, I had to find someone else with an original set, and have them duplicated. My recording studio uses Macs exclusively, so I couldn’t do it myself.

When I received the discs, I was shocked to find that the first five cuts on most of them had horrific graphics…artifacts all over the place…rendering reading of the lyrics next to impossible. The freaky part: all the manufactured discs I own play flawlessly. And, when the fellow who burned them plays them on his machine (same make: JVC), they play fine!!

The person that burned them for me uses a compatible burner. The discs were Taiyo Yuden, burned at 4x. Both he and I are at a loss for the cause. I contacted JVC (the manufacturer of my player) and they said CDRs would ruin the player!!! I also spoke to a couple of independent service techs, who told me, essentially, if the laser isn’t dirty, then it has to be the disc.

Right now, the only road I see to follow is to try other CD brands and see how they perform. That could be lengthy, Since I’m in PA and my friend is in NY.

If anyone has experienced this problem, has any advice or can reccomend a brand of media, please let me know. You can contact me at prrcomm@atlanticbb.net.

@ prrcomm,

I suggest that you visit the MTU (http://www.mtu.com/basics/karaoke.htm) Web Site and view their software Microstudio software.

Their Karaoke Suite 4 for $138.95 cannot be beat. If you own a karaoke service this software suite would be a must to ensure that all your Karaoke CD+Gs were backed upped to prevent damage and loss. If you are not computer savvy I would suggest you to direct you computer buddy to the MTU (http://www.mtu.com/basics/karaoke.htm) Web Site and have review all their software and see what he thinks.

Years ago when my Teenage Daughters were into the Karaoke scene I had a copy of the MTU Microstudio software program and made back up copies of all their Karaoke CD+G disks. All their backup copies played in every Karaoke CD+G player that they ever tried. Using the MTU Microstudio software program I was constantly making copies of their friends Karaoke CD+G disks. I was routinely making complications of various single Karaoke CD+G songs onto one CD+G so they would have all their favorites songs on just one Karaoke CD+G disk.

As I was saying this years ago and I am sure by now that they have made improvements to their MTU Microstudio software program that it is better than the MTU Microstudio software program I was using years ago. Also the newer CD/DVD Burners today are better in reproducing the sub-channel data need for the Karaoke graphics then old Plextor CD Burner I was using years ago.

Copy/duplicating Karaoke CD+G is a demanding task for a computer and all background activity needs to be curtailed when burning the CD+G. The computer needs a sufficient amount of RAM and hard drive need to be defragmented to ensure no buffer overruns.

Also what ever supposedly JVC spokesperson told you that playing CD-Rs in a Karaoke CD+G would ruin the player is absolutely 100% totally wrong. Both of my daughters still have their JVC Karaoke CD+G players and they play CD-Rs Karaoke CD+G I made years ago and they play flawlessly. Trust me this JVC guy doesn’t have a clue about what he is talking about.

Anyway stop by the MTU (http://www.mtu.com/basics/karaoke.htm) Web Site and check out their Karaoke CD+G software.

Best Regards,
bjkg

Some karaoke players will not play CDR’s made on a computer. . . .Particularly so, if your karaoke player is a few years old. . . . . Only recently, in last 18-months or so, have all the TV DVD Players and CD Players on the market, been upgraded to handle all computer made optical-storage disks. . . . Two years ago. most TV DVD players would not play computer made DVD disks (computer made DVDR or DVDRW, either the plus or minus disks). . . .And none would play the VCD’s or SVCD’s or the Mp3-disks. . . . Nowadays, almost all TV DVD Players will play anything you put into them

The first thing is to find out if your karaoke player can even handle a computer made CDG disk. . . . Take one of the store bought CDG disks that you have and duplicate it on your computer. . . .See, if that duplicate will then play in your karaoke player

If it does not, before giving-up, try different burning softwares. . . . Even try using another burner. . . . One of the problems of Computer made disks is that sometimes they work only on your computer, but won’t work on another computer, nor on some stand-alone TV-Player or Karaoke-Player. . . . This problem was quite common a few years ago, but most new euipment has eliminated this concern. . . .

The Lite-On CD burners are noted for being able to handle anything you throw at them. . . . The Plextor burners (always twice the cost almost) have durability and reliability, but are not noted as doing well with protected material. . . . In fact, it seems that any burner USA made or Western Europe made has trouble duplicating protected material. . . BTW, nowadays, if getting a new burner, might as well get a DVD-CD burner that does both. . . . I have four different brands of buners on my computer, so if one does not work, I try the others

As to softwares, try Nero of course. . . . But also try Alcohol 120%, which is much better at duplicating a CD. . . . (I have never tried it, but believe Alcohol will also do DVD’s). . . . There are other softwares, CDRwin, CloneCD, CloneDVD, Blind-Write-Read. . . . . CDRwin comes in a US version 3.9 or a Europe version 5+, so stay with the US version. . . . .

Relative to the sub-channel data mentioned above, you need a burner that can see that data (I prefer the Lite-On), and a burning-software that can handle it (Alcohol, CloneCD, CDRwin, etc). . . . These softwares sometimes have to be set as to how they handle the data - - say, Nero’s burning choice of disk-at-once verus track-at-once. . . . Also, it is always best to first make a CD-Image, and then dupicate from this CD-Image - - avoiding burning-on-the-fly. . . . Again, as said above turn everything off before burning, particularly the AntiVirus and Firewall. . . .( Best to disconnect from the Internet)

@ John375,

When closely re-reading Forum member prrcomm posting you will see that he has all ready confirmed that his JVC Karaoke CD+G player will play CD+R media.

He has also confirmed the Burner used produces playable Karaoke CD+G.

Best Regards,
bjkg

You can get some CD+G karaoke on limewire, but you have to look at the file ext. because a lot of people download it in the wrong format and you don’t get the graphic’s you have to make sure it states it’s format is CD+G

What format of DVD karaoke is this, i’ve seen Audiot_ts,video_ts and midi10 folder on my dvd disc. The midi10 folder contain bin and dat files while video_ts folder contains vob files. I tried to duplicate this using dvd clonerII but i can only view video no audio and lyrics as well. I can not also select a song.

low quality discs (cd-r) give lousy results for cdg graphics.

the best discs we have used are mitsui, as recommended by goldenhawk/cdrwin.

KARAOKE GRAPHICS. Hope I’m in right place (first post). Having trouble putting my karaoke songs on hard drive. Two burners tried both copy the songs but not the graphics. Can anyone help??? The original cd’s are all cd+g format.

most any good dvd burner will do them and an old program called clonecd

audiograbber is a good program for digitizing tracks and winamplite with plugin for playing

Re - - harvey concerns

First an example - - Place a music CD into the CD-DVD player . . . . Open Windows Explorer and navigate to that CD, and open it (not play it) . . . That is, right-click the CD-DVD-drive and choose “Explorer” in the drop-down menu. . . . You should now see Track 01, Track 02, Track 03, and so on. . . . Copy all those Tracks and place them in a folder on the Desktop. . . . Now try to play those tracks that you placed in that Desktop folder. . . . They won’t play, as all you really copied were the Track names (Track01, Track02. etc.).

In this case, the music CD, one must use a CD-music-ripping software to get that music off the CD. . . . Say, the free CDex software, which I prefer. . . . The music on the CD is stored using (say) cylindrical coordinates (data block at so-&-so radius and angle theta). . . To copy that music off the CD, one essentially must copy the data plus its cylindrical coordinates used by the CD and then convert all that to the coordinate system used in Windows.

The Windows 32-bit coordinate system is really a mess, as there are not enough digits in a 32-bit system to uniquely identify all the miniscule magnetic rods on the hard-drive. . . To get around this 32-bit limitation, Windows works with Sectors and Clusters, each sub-division with its own numbering system. . . . Then there is the problem that a hard-drive can contain five internal-storage-disks, ten magnetic heads, so that the Windows’s numbering system must be able to distinguish between what disk is the data on, and the disk’s top-side-or bottom-side

Summarizing, to copy a music CD to a hard-drive, one must use some ripping software that will do all the mathematics of taking the data off the CD and converting to that which Windows can use

The same goes with Karaoke CD+G disks. . . . There is Music therein that must be properly ripped off the CD. . . . Plus, there is Graphics, most likely elsewhere on the CD, that also must be properly ripped off the CD. . . . And, there is some type of correlation of the Music with the Graphics that also must be captured and preserved

This means that, to copy a Karaoke CD+G disk to the hard-drive, one must use a “Karaoke CD+G ripping” software or use a CD-cloning software. . . .(CD-cloning software - - Alcohol 120%, CloneCD, CDRWin, Blind Read-Write, etc). . . .

The “Karaoke CD+G ripping” software will allow you to play the Karaoke from your hard-drive and watch the bouncing ball on the lyrics on your monitor. . . . Most likely the “Karaoke CD+G ripping” software will give different placement on the hard-drive depending on what specific software you use. . . . Most likely that generated on the hard-drive by one “Karaoke CD+G ripping” software will not be playable by another “Karaoke CD+G ripping” software

The CD-cloning software will make an exact-image of that Karaoke CD+G disk from which you cam make duplicate CD+G disks. . . . Believe that the CD-Cloning softwares must be properly set in the Prefernces to handle a CD+G disk. . . (Seems, I recall that CDRWin did this). . . . Also, most CD-cloning softwares will also allow you to create a section on the hard-drive that simulates a CD, and if the image is placed therein, will allow you to play the Karaoke CD+G from your hard-drive

I have been out-of-touch with Karaoke CD+G disks for some time now, so do not know what is currently available. . . . But try searching around for a CD+G ripping software. . . . . When I last did this CD+G several years ago, I had problems in that I would get the synchronization perfect, then store the end-product on my hard-drive, only to find that next day the synchronization went astray when recalled

So if I read correctly, there is no way to get Karaoke MP3’s to a CD+G that I can use when I go out to Karaoke? I have a ton of them on my computer and most are newer songs which i’d like to use. Any assistance is greatly appreciated

Brad

are they matched mp3s and cdg files?

Yes they are. Are you referring to such as below?

Diary Of Jane.mp3
Diary Of Jane.cdg

making them from cdg disks is relatively easy, going the other way not as easy

http://www.karaokeplayground.co.uk/