Is Verbatim the best? These scans say NO!

vbimport

#1

Hi everyone,

years ago I occasionally burnt dvds bought at the local market.

I didn’t care about the brand, I bought the ones I found.

These scans were made 10 minutes ago (alcohol, 4x same drive of the scan)

Philips

TDK

Sony

Maxell

Notice that all were burnt +3 years ago and their PIF are really good (the last one is incredible to me).

I wonder if verbatim and TY reputation of being the only reliable brands is well-deserved.


#2

Welcome to the forum :slight_smile:

Well, that’s an interesting thread title. Do you have any Verbatim scans to compare these with?

Also, I would be very interested in seeing Transfer Rate Tests done on the same discs. Do you have any picky drives, such as NEC or Optiarc?

BTW, the images take forver to load, and the TDK one refuses to load at all as I type this. You might like to use the forum attachment feature. :wink:


#3

Scans don’t show disc quality, they show how compatible your DVD writer is with a particular disc, therefor how well it can burn them, nothing more. You can use them to trace the aging of the disc too.

The reason Verbatim and TY often get good scans is that they are big brands and drive manufacturers make sure they can burn these right.

I define “good” as how long they last. People who use them in standalones would also include how compatible they are with these devices.

Moomin


#4

[QUOTE=al17;2120622]Notice that all were burnt +3 years ago and their PIF are really good (the last one is incredible to me).

I wonder if verbatim and TY reputation of being the only reliable brands is well-deserved.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

The reputation of Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden is that they are the [B]MOST RELIABLE[/B] and [B]EASILY AVAILABLE[/B] brands! You seem to have missed that most self-evident sublety in the thousands of statements made on this site. No one has ever said that they were and have always been the ONLY reliable media. That’s just an outright falsehood. :cop:

We all know that there was a lot of decent 4x and 8x media, but for the most part, 4x and 8x media no longer exists. The quality of 16x media has been going steadily downhill. TDK no longer makes TTG02 and no longer manufacturers their own media, as they once did in the glory days. Ritek crashed and burned once they started making RITEKG05, with disks disintegrating willy-nilly. Sony stopped making SONY08D1 long ago, and doesn’t even make MIJ media anymore. Now you’re lucky if you get MIT. As for the Fuji media, that scan of yours doesn’t look all that special, and a full disk burn might have revealed some outrageous PIE numbers.

So, when people recommend Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden, it’s because they give the best quality for the price, [B]IN THE CURRENT MARKET OF AVAILABLE CONSUMER-GRADE MEDIA[/B]. Out of production 4x and 8x media doesn’t count, nor do outrageously priced professional and archival grades. :cop:


#5

[QUOTE=Moomin;2120632]Scans don’t show disc quality, they show how compatible your DVD writer is with a particular disc, therefor how well it can burn them, nothing more. You can use them to trace the aging of the disc too.

The reason Verbatim and TY often get good scans is that they are big brands and drive manufacturers make sure they can burn these right.

I define “good” as how long they last. People who use them in standalones would also include how compatible they are with these devices.

Moomin[/QUOTE]

Compatibility, reliability, and consistency are the three key aspects (at least for me, but I believe any paranoid guy/gal would agree with me) that are important in optical media. I agree with Moomin with how scans do not definitely correlate a disc’s quality, moreso it’s compatibility with standalones.

There’s also a pattern emerging from the results of your PIF, they top off at 2 and never go past 450 - I’m a little wary at the accuracy of your scans. And there is a reason that people usually fill discs up to the end (no, they’re not just stingy and want to make the most out of a disc), the disc’s edges are more prone to exhibiting manufacturing errors and eventual damage, which will ultimately affect the readability and longevity of a disc. Aside from that, a higher-speed scan (such as 8x or higher) will reveal more errors than 4x scans. So with these three reasons I cannot agree with your insinuations on Verbatim media, even though you may call me a Verbatim-“fan”, there are years of experience based on that, and I haven’t regretted using MCC/MKM blanks as many can also attest.


#6

[QUOTE=evo69;2120663]Compatibility, reliability, and consistency are the three key aspects (at least for me, but I believe any paranoid guy/gal would agree with me) that are important in optical media.[/QUOTE]

:iagree::iagree:

However…with my own particular LiteOn drive, I must say that 8x scan speed produces some very wacky results (this has also been noted by other owners of the same drive in our LiteOn forum). So for the LiteOn that I own (LH-20A1H), 4x CLV is a better bet IMO. :slight_smile:

And for a 3S drive, like the OP has, 4x is the forum standard anyway :slight_smile:

(However, my 165P6S is an AWESOME scanner at 8x, not too tolerant :))


#7

However…with my own particular LiteOn drive, I must say that 8x scan speed produces some very wacky results (this has also been noted by other owners of the same drive in our LiteOn forum). So for the LiteOn that I own (LH-20A1H), 4x CLV is a better bet IMO. :slight_smile:

And for a 3S drive, like the OP has, 4x is the forum standard anyway :slight_smile:

(However, my 165P6S is an AWESOME scanner at 8x, not too tolerant :))[/QUOTE]

Excuse my ignorance :wink: Verbatim may not be the best per se, but it is in my book. :clap: The best bang for my buck! :cool:

Anyhoo, the OP’s choice of discs are not by any means sub-par. The Ritek Maxell could be scoffed at and the Fujifilm Philips would’ve passed at least 450k PIEs, but as brands they are quite good.


#8

[QUOTE=evo69;2120674]Excuse my ignorance :wink: Verbatim may not be the best per se, but it is in my book. :clap: The best bang for my buck! :cool:[/QUOTE]

No ignorance, just a difference of opinion :flower:…and I agree, IMO Verbatim is the best - MCC004 specifically is my favourite media right now, no matter where it’s made :iagree:

Edit: now I sound like a fan-girl. Oh well :bigsmile:


#9

[QUOTE=Arachne;2120678]No ignorance, just a difference of opinion :flower:…and I agree, IMO Verbatim is the best - MCC004 specifically is my favourite media right now, no matter where it’s made :iagree:[/QUOTE]

Hey, that’s my top choice too! :iagree: Now if we could only hear from Al what his thoughts on the matter are! :slight_smile:

For the record, if it’s only homemade scans that is used as the basis of the quality of a disc, then some of my MIC CMC MAG M01 discs would technically be better than MIT MCC004 (CMC or Prodisc).

I’ll try saying that again in a few more months. :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

[QUOTE=evo69;2120683]Hey, that’s my top choice too! :iagree: Now if we could only hear from Al what his thoughts on the matter are! :slight_smile:

For the record, if it’s only homemade scans that is used as the basis of the quality of a disc, then some of my MIC CMC MAG M01 discs would technically be better than MIT MCC004 (CMC or Prodisc).

I’ll try saying that again in a few more months. :p[/QUOTE]

Can’t beat a bit of MCC004 IMO :iagree:…and yes, Al’s been very quiet, would be nice to hear his thoughts on the discussion :iagree:

MIC CMC MAG M01? :eek:…I only had the MIT variety (I have MIC MCC004 made by CMC here though).

LOL yeah, you did see dakhaas’s thread about possible M01 deterioration, right? :bigsmile:


#11

Hi al17, welcome to CDFreaks! :slight_smile:

[quote=al17;2120622]I wonder if verbatim and TY reputation of being the only reliable brands is well-deserved.[/quote] The reputation that Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are reliable brands(*) is well-earned and based on a lot of experience on these forums.

(*) Taiyo Yuden not being a brand but a manufacturer.

This does NOT mean that Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden discs are the [I]only[/I] discs that can produce good results, nor does it mean that Verbatim and TY will [I]always[/I] produce good results.

What it means is, that as a general rule, buying Verbatim or TY discs will result in getting good results on a wide choice of CD/DVD burners with an expectation of readability in a wide number of readers/players and good longevity under normal storage conditions.

You might get the same results with other brands, but the chance is generally not as good unless you go for quite specific models of discs.

Sometimes even Verbatim or TY discs will produce unsatisfying results on good CD/DVD burners, since cost-cutting has reduced quality assurance and quality control for almost all blank CD/DVD media, even Verbatim and TY.


#12

[QUOTE=Arachne;2120684]Can’t beat a bit of MCC004 IMO :iagree:…and yes, Al’s been very quiet, would be nice to hear his thoughts on the discussion :iagree:

MIC CMC MAG M01? :eek:…I only had the MIT variety (I have MIC MCC004 made by CMC here though).

LOL yeah, you did see dakhaas’s thread about possible M01 deterioration, right? :bigsmile:[/QUOTE]

[OT] Can’t say I have… care to send me a link? tried looking for “dakhaas m01” but nothing shows up.[/OT]

It seems like we’re the only zealots defending the big V. :stuck_out_tongue: :bigsmile:


#13

Haha, you know, I was thinking about what Al would think when he saw the discussion…and my first thought was “he’ll think we’re a pair of zealots!!” :bigsmile:

And here’s the link to Dakhaas’s thread: http://club.cdfreaks.com/f33/warning-cmc-mag-m01-249456/ :wink:


#14

[Off-topic]

[quote=evo69;2120691][OT] Can’t say I have… care to send me a link? tried looking for “dakhaas m01” but nothing shows up.[/OT][/quote] [B]Warning CMC MAG M01[/B]

EDIT: Beaten to the finish-line by LightningKitty :wink:


#15

Wow! So many replies! Well… let’s start.

Welcome to the forum
Thanks :slight_smile:

Well, that’s an interesting thread title. Do you have any Verbatim scans to compare these with?

Also, I would be very interested in seeing Transfer Rate Tests done on the same discs
Will add at the end of the reply

People who use them in standalones would also include how compatible they are with these devices.
I have two standalones; my beloved LG (it reads EVERYTHING, even stones!) and another one, very cheap. They both read these dvds.

We all know that there was a lot of decent 4x and 8x media, but for the most part, 4x and 8x media no longer exists. The quality of 16x media has been going steadily downhill. TDK no longer makes TTG02 and no longer manufacturers their own media, as they once did in the glory days. Ritek crashed and burned once they started making RITEKG05, with disks disintegrating willy-nilly. Sony stopped making SONY08D1 long ago, and doesn’t even make MIJ media anymore. Now you’re lucky if you get MIT. As for the Fuji media, that scan of yours doesn’t look all that special, and a full disk burn might have revealed some outrageous PIE numbers.
I didn’t know 4x and 8x were okay, but today 16x are not. Thanks.

There’s also a pattern emerging from the results of your PIF, they top off at 2 and never go past 450 - I’m a little wary at the accuracy of your scans. And there is a reason that people usually fill discs up to the end (no, they’re not just stingy and want to make the most out of a disc)
I just checked a couple of 4450mb tdk and sony and their end were fine.

No ignorance, just a difference of opinion :flower:…and I agree, IMO Verbatim is the best - MCC004 specifically is my favourite media right now, no matter where it’s made

[I]And the rest of you, zealots[/I] :stuck_out_tongue:
Verbatim are fantastic, I know that; 95% of my dvds are mcc003/4 and MCC03RG20, but when you ask suggestions about NOT-verbatim you always read one answer: "Ritek, cmc, etc are crap, stay away from those. Buy verbatim and TY or throw your writer out of the window " or something like that. :slight_smile:

Then, I found that my old tdk, maxell, etc were not so bad as I thought.

The reputation that Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are reliable brands(*) is well-earned and based on a lot of experience on these forums.

(*) Taiyo Yuden not being a brand but a manufacturer.

This does NOT mean that Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden discs are the [I]only[/I] discs that can produce good results, nor does it mean that Verbatim and TY will [I]always[/I] produce good results.

What it means is, that as a general rule, buying Verbatim or TY discs will result in getting good results on a wide choice of CD/DVD burners with an expectation of readability in a wide number of readers/players and good longevity under normal storage conditions.

You might get the same results with other brands, but the chance is generally not as good unless you go for quite specific models of discs.
That’s exactly my new opinion. Verbatim and TY are excellent, but other brands could be too.


#16

Trt











#17

[QUOTE=al17;2120760]
Verbatim are fantastic, I know that; 95% of my dvds are mcc003/4 and MCC03RG20, but when you ask suggestions about NOT-verbatim you always read one answer: "Ritek, cmc, etc are crap, stay away from those. Buy verbatim and TY or throw your writer out of the window " or something like that. :)[/QUOTE]

No way! I’m a big fan of CMC 8x -R and +R and 16x -R, and RICOHJPN R03 (16x +R made by Ritek, never tried the MBIL-made ones) :slight_smile:

However, Verbatim (and to a lesser extent, TY) are generally recommended - ususally in threads where a person is having media problems - as they’re usually very well supported by drive firmware and 99% of the time, the safest bet if someone is experiencing problems with second-tier media :slight_smile:


#18

I recommend the use of Verbatim or TY media when trouble-shooting an issue. There are times when that suggestion just isn’t even required, and the person ends up having his or her Ritek, Sony, Daxon, CMC, MBIL, etc media burning beautifully. I am one of the people to support the use of alternate discs if they work for you as I MYSELF have not had any real issues with the previously mentioned disc makers, except for the odd bad spindle or an issue I myself caused.

I will comment on what a particular disc models is like historically, and say that a certain brand of discs usually doesn’t work with a certain drive, but I do try to stay away from generalizations as much as possible, and stick to what’s being talked about in the thread.

But I will give you the fact that some of the users on here have not had such good luck as I have, and will feel completely the opposite of what I feel.


#19

Sorry, I can’t find the trt of the first verbatim




#20

[QUOTE=Arachne;2120764]No way! I’m a big fan of CMC 8x -R and +R and 16x -R, and RICOHJPN R03 (16x +R made by Ritek, never tried the MBIL-made ones) :slight_smile:

However, Verbatim (and to a lesser extent, TY) are generally recommended - ususally in threads where a person is having media problems - as they’re usually very well supported by drive firmware and 99% of the time, the safest bet if someone is experiencing problems with second-tier media :)[/QUOTE]

I buy CMC AM3 and CMC M01 by the hundreds too, good media for general use - but I use quality media when I need to backup important data… I also have a spindle or two left of Maxell RICOHJPN R03 - pretty good media also. We seem to have the same preference in media! :wink:

I still say that Verbatim is the best (bang for your buck) solely due to my own definition/requirements of good media - although there are still a lot of choices for the discerning media buyer out there. For what it’s worth, I’ve never gotten a spindle of Verbatim blanks that I regretted buying (gone through thousands of Verbatims literally). :slight_smile:

Variety and competition between media manufacturers will certainly make the media market rich with options. I hope that someone will even beat Verbatim at the quality of their discs while keeping costs down – then that would be my new “best” choice if it happens. Until then, Verbatim will be the best overall choice for anyone.