Is those CDs, real/fake Taiyo Yuden? Same Quality?

Thanks in advance for reading my post, as it is long but I hope some freaks/perfectionnist people will read it even if my english is not the best :wink:

I used to not know anything about CDR Manufacturer sometime ago, 'till I stumble on the CD Manufacturer articles posted here (http://www.cdfreaks.com/document.php3?Doc=91) and that was not surprising me as that is how it work for most business name and manufacturer. But I digged a little into the CD-R Media Forum (Especially the thread about which one are the best.) Enough to get someone addicted and psychologically sick, especially if you like quality and you are curious.

However, let’s say that i was starting back with my computer related material not long ago, almost from zero for some personal reason, and the only cd-r that I had left were the HP and I found out with the CD Identifier program (and other later) that they were made by Taiyo Yuden, and I was like very happy with that as I bought them long time ago. They work all well so far. Except they were 74 minutes and I needed one 80 minutes one for one particular cd. Therefore I was wanting to have qualities. I found some Kodak Ultima (12x) Silver+Gold… (I don’t remember where they were made) spindle for about 36$ canadian, which is good, did not buy them yet thought, but I might, I know people would probably buy them from me for more on the 'net :wink: However… I also noticed about the “special skrewtop” on the taiyo yuden spindle released under compagnie name like Fujifilm, HP (like the one I have) and the Memorex and also about those NOTICES about how Taiyo are usually the one “made in japan” and that the “made in taiwan” are usually crap, please remember the word usually, which will lead to my ultimate question later.

Also searching for a good CD-R for my girlfriend, I already had a LG 32x which I get not long ago, and I decide after reading a lot of reviews, like those on cdrlabs, that I will go for a LG 40x for quality/prices… Because my burner is so far acting good. Most people I know who had LG were satisfied, and also the reason I did buy LG was because their drive are quite noisy… the only downside is the limited write speed… but I personally prefer writting at 8 and 12x (my LG32x support 16x writting but not the LG 40x… :-|). However… all this to say that I have go buy the LG 40x at the same computer place where I bought my system and I asked him for a deal on the drive, and I asked him about his media he was selling (around 35 cents canadian money each. which is pretty cheap.) On the phone he told me the 50 spindle were SMARTBUY and the 100 cd spindle were noname. However when I go get the LG40x, I asked him where they were from, he seemed to say they were from CHINA… maybe he mistaken or what. I asked him to give me ONLY ONE TO TEST AND SEE IF THEY ARE GOOD.

Later the same day, I came back home, and fired up my CD Identifier to find out that it was identifying as TAIYO YUDEN!!! I was like OMG, wow, cheap but neat-o but I was still not 100% sure it was real, since ATIP can surely be faked… So I did some research on the internet, to find out that on the taiyo yuden’s site they had noname cds… and that a lot of website were selling cheap taiyo yuden 100 cd spindle (Silver Lacquer model is the cd I Have I think if they are the same.).

Then later I burned with my LG32x that cd that is around 660megs (>74 mins) … and I ran a cd speed test… it reached 41x speed in my LG32x in cd quality check with 0 errors. Then I did a FIles and SUrface scans… all GREEN, 0 damaged, 0 errors. I told myself that it seem good (I dunno if cheap brand are usually green at first then lose quality fast? or if they usually have yellow sector (damaged) right at the beginning…)

Well then today I told that to my friend who I talked a lot about cd media lately… and we were still unsure… we go directly to the place, we talk to one vendor that I remembered that was cool and quite “honnest” from what I have saw, and he said he was using good media as kodak back in time and stuff… not junk brand… however I did know the ATIP was taiyo… but was not sure to buy some 100 spindle without be sure it is real… then he checked the box they were in… and the box was written TAIWAN under it… so I told myself they are made in TAIWAN, so hmmmmmmm… maybe fake ATIP??? But I still believe it “might” be taiyon yuden.

Combined to my research on similar spindle yesterday and today I did research about Taiyo Yuden and Taiwan and I found that:

> TAIWAN TAIWAN TAIYO YUDEN CO.,LTD. No.15,Lane 91,Sec.1,Nei-Hu Road
> Taipei Taiwan Tel(886)2-2797-2155 Fax(886)2-2797-7663
>
>
> Link -> http://www.ty-top.com/contact/contact.html

So I told myself, it could be right, but I dunno if their factory there does cd or what.

OC-Freak once said in this forum that “All Taiyo Yudens is made in Japan”, and I begin to wonder if that is 100% true… or 99% true if you know what I mean.

Luckily today I found 50cd spindle memorex with taiyo yuden special skrewtop which I might buy, but they are like 30$canadian, and the 100cd spindle that are weird with noname (but you can notice cdr80xxxxx somewhere around the middle and some BLACK serial number or whetever you call it on the plastic) are like 34$… so if I be sure they are LEGIT TAIYO YUDEN… I may be very interested in those 100 cd spindle :wink:

Some people might think they are Taiyo, but with the box that they were in written “TAIWAN” I still be suspicious.

The spindle they are in… is weird too, they don’t have the SCREWTOP like the HP, Memorex and FUjifilm “made in japan” which are obviously 99.9% Taiyo Yuden one…

I will try - as english is not my first language - to describe the package the 100cds are in: i think the bottom was white… but the bottom are not like those HP/Memorex/Fujifilm made in japan one. Very different. Over the 100cds there is one white carton (cd style but it is cartoon). The plastic that cover the cds has to be removed a special way, it is “clipped” in the bottom (around the plastic circle that is at the bottom of the spindle) and you have to turn it in a way to “unclip” it… so you can remove the plastic case… so that is about it.

Now the specifics questions (try to inclue the number(s) of the question(s) you answer in your reply):


1- Do you think those are real Taiyo Yuden… can you certify this 100%? Not just say no without be sure…

2- Is Taiyo Yuden really only produce CDs in Japan or do they have cdr manufacturer elsewhere like taiwan… ?

3- Is it possible that Taiyo Yuden only did a part of the cds which contain their ATIP but the rest is not them?

4- Is Nero cd speed accurate for surface scan? Or is it very basic? I heard it could give bad result if the drive don’t support error detection? I wonder if I should not try to reach a friend who has a liteon and use that special WSES? software… to check C1 and C2 errors… (I have a LG32x and I just bought a LG40x for someone if you want to know which drive I use with Nero CD Speed) (and is there better software for this, check question #6) --> I ask this question to be sure that my “All Green” are really meaning the cds was burned ok and was ok (see good media)

5- Do you think a website with all cd description (picture, spindle picture, description) that would help people identify the manufacturer from the package, the spindle package, etc. would be usefull for cdr freaks… I think that this kind of website might be cool… one easy example might be the Fujifilm spindle picture with the special Taiyo Yuden “screw top” that was posted here in this forum and with the description that they are Made in Japan, meaning they are probably Taiyo Yuden. Those kind of information but for a lot of brand… and not just in a forum… the forum is cool for brainstorming, but as you may have noticed in “which is the best media”… people say they are ok if they work, without always check their error with cd speed… maybe with wSES or whetever soft it is with Lite-On it will be better?

6- Is there software that will give me more detailled report on error, (like this WSES? Software that probably run only on Lite-on?) Remember I am using a LG32x… all suggestion are welcome.


Please avoid to give me opinion on your taste, but assumption with a good support will be highly considerate… if someone can do (or have do) more research on the weird media I talk about I will like to heard from them. I have heard other people who seem to have buy similar product in canada (quebec) shops… maybe they did error because or they are just different product or taiyo yuden really make cdr media in taiwan?

Even if it is probably the same information for all “97 24 01”, for those interested, here is the ATIP of the CD I am talkin about:

ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

I guess ATIP is pretty easy to fake when you make your own media… but there is probably “legal” rule about them?

Originally posted by MickoZ

6- Is there software that will give me more detailled report on error, (like this WSES? Software that probably run only on Lite-on?) Remember I am using a LG32x… all suggestion are welcome.

Yes, and LG have one tailered for your drive, however they doesn’t seem welling to release it. Maybe all the LG owners should email them and ask for it.

MickoZ
I suggest you edit your post and eliminate about 75% of the story. most people won’t bother to read all of it anyway.

Do you think those are real Taiyo Yuden… can you certify this 100%? Not just say no without be sure…

Of course no one here can guarantee your media for you. and if the CDR’s are performing well enough, I’m not sure it really matters.
The newest 48x Fuji media, made by TY, does not have the classic spin-off nut on top. In the USA, every product must state the country of manufacture, so TY always says “made in Japan”. the fact that TY has offices all over the world is of little importance. They also provide media for a large number of re-packagers, including in Taiwan. It’s also true that just because a particular cheap label has TY in the package today, it does not mean it will be TY in the package tomorrow.

First, when you talk about if the cd-r perform well enough, I wonder. Do cheap one (like people claim here like CMC) when they be “just burned” do they usually return “all green” in Nero CDSpeed… and if the quality degrade fast or what… I mean I don’t want to burn something, verify it, and that 1 year later I found out that the quality degrade fast.

Second, “The newest 48x Fuji media, made by TY, does not have the classic spin-off nut on top.” Well some fuji are now identified as “Fujifilm”… I wonder if they still use TY… but the latest Fujifilm I saw made in japan had the TY on them but they were old… 24x one I think… but I find some Memorex made in Japan (while some are made in taiwan) and they are certified 40x (like the taiwan one) but the package is different and it has the black TY Spin-off nut.

“so TY always says “made in Japan”.” – so you seem to say that TY always put “made in Japan”… but hmmmm I wonder if they don’t produce CD elsewere like in Taiwan (Kodak was doing cd in Ireland and Mexico or something… so why not TY too, but like you say it is maybe just office.)…

"They also provide media for a large number of re-packagers, including in Taiwan. " – this is interesting… so… you think they produce the CD in Japan? Then send in taiwan… and the re-packager release their own spindle package with their own plastic cover and stuff… but that the cd might be real TY one and that might explain why it is written TAIWAN at the bottom of the box. Because if you do a little research on google about TAIYO YUDEN 100 Spindle or something like that, you will find a lot of “Silver Lacquer” spindle available at cheap price and the picture they provide is similar to what I found, but I did not find detailled picture which were revelant that it was the picture of the actual product.

About the LG software for cd media checking, it looks very interesting, if I got some free time I will try to contact LG about it, or if someone has done it or is willing to try right about now, I will like to heard about their reply… :wink: Also where you heard about this LG soft idiot@ace ?

Anyway I think for today, I will go buy a spindle of those MEMOREX with TY’s Black Spind-off and Made in Japan… I will get less stress that way :stuck_out_tongue: But it will be quite cool if I can get those 100cd spindle and be sure it is TY product… since it will cost me 34$ca per 100 cd rather than 60$ for 100cd… if I buy the Memorex or any other brand that has the TY spindle (at less on the place I know they got them…)

And you guys have heard of FAKE ATIP a lot or what? Do you think it is “highly possible” that one taiwan company put the Taiyo Yuden ATIP… or like some people claim, that to do their cd, they only use a part that come from TY… but the rest of the cd were made by this taiwan company (repackager??)… if so… maybe they identify as TY but they are not 100% made by TY…

Another quetion to finish… Is the memorex from Taiwan are usually PRODISC??? and are they good?

Why not contact Taiyo Yuden directly via e-mail and ask whether these “Silver Lacquer” are really made by Taiyo Yuden, despite the TAIWAN on the spindle :smiley:

But…please, make your e-mail as short as possible, otherwise the chances for a reply are very low :wink:

“TAIWAN” on a spindle is not the same as “Made in Taiwan”! But I think that only Taiyo Yuden itself is able to answer your questions about its “Taiwan discs”.

Originally posted by MickoZ
[B]Even if it is probably the same information for all “97 24 01”, for those interested, here is the ATIP of the CD I am talkin about:

ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

I guess ATIP is pretty easy to fake when you make your own media… but there is probably “legal” rule about them?
[/B]

First, the ATIP posted is for the (older) lower rated speed (16X) TY discs, the higher rated speed (24X-48X) TY discs have slightly different ATIPs as follows:

ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f / LBA: 359848)

ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f / LBA: 359847)

Notice the 1f and LBA difference in the later versions of ATIPs.

I have also read from an unconfirmed source that TY had outsourced to Lead Data in Taiwan to manufacture the lower speed discs (but not their newest RV dye discs), like CMC manufacturing Verbatim discs, Prodisc manufacturing Mitsui discs, and Lead Data manufacturing Sony discs. I have no idea how true it may be, but have a feeling sooner or later it’s going to happen because TY has to keep down the cost to maintain its presence in the CD-R market.

As a side note, the Taiwan branch of Taiyo Yuden has nothing to do with CD-R business at all. They are mainly in the capacitors business.

In a lot of scene, like video games collecting scene, people brag about deal they find, why not do it with cd-r…

Well I said I found Memorex 40x taiyo yuden at 30$canadian, well today they are at 28$canadian + they give free cd sleeve, but I bought something right before and I am not that sad about it… I also mentionned earlier I found spindle of kodak for 36$ for 50… well I found for 60$canadian for 100… (they just popped up it seem) they are the 12x one made in mexico… (silver+gold ultima 80 min), I guess they are good, and I told myself for the same price as the Taiyo Yuden, I might give a big try to the good old kodak one… I guess I am not wrong, till I try to burn some… but I don’t burn as much as I used to do, but who know… :wink:

But still the Memorex Taiyo at 40x seem pretty good with the free sleeves coming together, very nice… (it is at future shop all over canada I guess for those one if you are interested, but you have to find the right one with the black SPIN-OFF NUT, not the made in taiwan one of course ;-P)

As for the other disc… I noticed a lot of site was selling them, when I have more time I will post you some note, but those site does not mention they were shipped from taiwan or anything… so who know.

Going fast fast they look on top like those Non printable Silver…

http://www.t-yuden.com/recordablemedia/index.cfm

but then again, anyone could fake the ATIP…

I wonder how tight is the control in the market for the ATIP… anyone have heard story about major “pirate” company who fake ATIP? I dunno why they would fake ATIP on generic brand like that… unless they just used a random ATIP… hmmmm…

If I get more information I will be sure to let you know…