Is This Media Fake Or Misrepresented?

I purchased what I thought was Taiyo Yuden CD-R Silver 100 discs in a cakebox from Meritline.com. The first cakebox I received from errored out so bad on Nero Disc Quality scanning or PxScan in my Plextor 716A and were unpalyable in my Philips DVP642, so I RMA’ed them back. Since then, I have a new 716A and a new BenQ DW1640 which have performed well with Fuji branded Taiyo Yudens and some miscellaneous media I’ve thrown at it.

Tonight I opened up the replacement Taiyo Yuden CD-R’s 100 disc cakebox from Meritline.com. The shipping invoice states under “Desription”: CD-R 52X 80Min / 700MB Silver / Silver in Cake Box (Taiyo-Yuden). I first burned a disc in the 716A using Nero CD DVD Speed to “Create Data Disc” which maxed out the burn speed at 32X. The Nero Read Transfer Rate looked ok but the disc looked horrible in Nero Disc Quality test done in the BenQ. Interestingly, the Nero Disc Info done with the blank in the 716A shows all speeds up to 48X available for writing and that Usage listed as “audio” under Extended Information.

The second disc burned was at 48X in the 716A and was 2 video files that filled the disc. The PxScan looks deceptively good, but there were 2 errors (BA 12 I think?!) during the Beta/Jitter testing and the disc errored out (No Additional Sense Info) and was unable to be scanned in the BenQ for the Nero Disc Quality test.

I then looked at a blank disc in the BenQ and the Nero Write Transfer Test showed a max speed of 24X! The Nero Disc Info shows write speeds of up to 24X only.

Now, since the firmware of my BenQ does not allow any overspeed burning (BSHB), and the Plextor does allow overspeed burning, I am assuming that these discs, IF they really are Taiyo Yuden’s, are 32X or 24X actual speed and I have been ripped off with either another cakebox of bad discs, mislabeled rated speed discs or an error in stocking.

What do you think?

Last 2 images of blank discs in the BenQ first showing MID and write speeds available, and last showing the Nero Write Transfer Rate test with the max speed of 24X.

This media is a real dissapointment from what they advertised on Meritline.com. :a

Tell me what you think.



First, you need to look at this thread:

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/t274881.html

Particularly this part:

Thank you for your mails.

These discs are made according to the standard of Taiyo-Yuden ,but not made in Japan .

Any question,just feel free to contact us .

Best Wishes,
Ivy
Customer Service Representative/ Meritline.com
orderstatus@Meritline.com
www.Meritline.com

:eek: :eek: :eek:But not made in Japan:eek: :eek: :eek:

That’s an extremely shady position to take on the possibility of fakes. If you do a search on Google for “meritline” “fake” “CDR”, you will get about 1000 hits. That answer from “Ivy” sounds very much like a course I once took in NYC, a part of which was called “giving marketing answers to technical questions”. Also known in the biz as “little white ones”.

Those scans you posted are nothing like what you should expect from real TY CD-R media. Was the media branded at all, or was everthing just plain? Problem is, even if plain, it doesn’t necessarily mean it isn’t TY. Take all the factors into consideration (vendor history & scan results) and I think you know what the answer is.

Now, since the firmware of my BenQ does not allow any overspeed burning (BSHB), and the Plextor does allow overspeed burning, I am assuming that these discs, IF they really are Taiyo Yuden’s, are 32X or 24X actual speed and I have been ripped off with either another cakebox of bad discs, mislabeled rated speed discs or an error in stocking.

Or, door #4, passing off fake TY as real TY. “Taiyo Yuden” means made by Taiyo Yuden, not “using Taiyo Yuden codes”.

The speeds are dependent on the firmware in the particular recorder. It just might be that the BenQ only burns that media at 24x. Since the 716’s firmware says 48x and you ended up with a 32x burn, either you didn’t set “max” in CDSpeed or PoweRec recognized what was going on during burning and tried to save the burn.

PS. Send them back as unsatisfactory and ask for a credit/refund. Report back here so that Google archives your experience with this retailer forever.

ftp1020:

You have validated my concerns. Thanks for the in depth comments.

I have been using Best Buy purchased Fuji branded Taiyo Yuden, Made In Japan, with great results, so I am confident that the Plextor 716A with firmware 1.08 can do 40-48X writes on TY CD-R’s without breaking a sweat. These discs from Meritline.com don’t match up with their marketing.

I had no trouble RMA’ing back to meritline the first 100 pack of “Taiyo Yudens” but had to pay shipping. Now I’ll have to pay again for shipping the discs back to them and probably get tagged for a restocking fee if I want a refund. These meritline “specials” are the most expensive CD-R’s I’ve ever thrown money at.

And I’m not the only dissatisfied customer by a long shot. After reading the bad experiences customers have had with Meritline.com, I wonder if the Attorney General of California knows about these business practices?

Here you can see what to expect ftom Taiyo Yuden CDR media
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1091829&postcount=96

That is definately misrepresentation. Those scan worse than the CMC crap I buy super cheap to throw around the car. Stick with a good online seller like Newegg or Rima, or with Fujis locally. Make sure your local government knows about it

-Evan-

Are there any serial numbers on the discs? If so - could you post them?

Is the centre hole frosted?

The media code is the same as the old 24x TY that was later re-rated to 32x. But obviously if it’s not made in Japan then it’s a faked code. I find it odd that the older code was used, unless they just wanted to limit the speed. Most drives should limit this media to 32x, but many will allow 40x.

It seems that Meritline is continuing down the road of selling crap and fakes. Not that we really needed another reason to not buy from them, but they continue to provide new reasons.

Here’s an old Smartburn readout of some generic 24x TY:


 Drive Type = CD-RW    
         Disc Type = CDR (A+)             
          Material = Cyanine
           Lead In = 97:24:01
          Lead Out = 79:59:73
  Nominal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 73f/LBA:359848)
Manufacturer Maybe = Taiyoyuden,Tuned-X
Smart-Burn Speed Limit = Wrt(40X),Rd(52X)

And here’s 48x TY:


This Disc is designed for CD-RW/COMBO Drive Only.
     Disc Type, Material = CD-R, Cyanine
            ATIP Lead-in = 97m 24s 01f
       Norminal Capacity = 702.83MB (79m 59s 72f)
 Disc Manufacturer maybe = Taiyoyuden,DX Dye  
  SMART-BURN Speed Limit = 52X

Grimey - You’re right. I missed that detail :o

48x should be 79.59.72
79.59.73 is the old 24/32x media… And if it’s not Made in Japan it’s fake as well…

Your eyes may be old, but they noticed that detail :slight_smile:

rdgrimes:

Excellent information about the media code of 79.59.73 is the old 24X media. I did not realize the signifigance. That would certainly explain why the BenQ will write at 24X max, while the Plextor will overspeed (but with horrible results).

OC-Freak:

The numbers on the disc are a sort of holographic “80 PD13190” on the bottom surface silver inner ring, and, “8C576N5978080” on the slightly opaque/foggy top inner hub. The cakebox the discs came in was black bottom, clear top, no stacking rings, and unmarked except for a barcode sticker on top with “100-025-100”. Of course there was an invoice which proclaimed these discs to be Taiyo Yuden 52X CD-R.

I have some Fuji branded Made In Japan Taiyo Yuden I bought at Best Buy recently and their markings were “80 PG1213” and “SA574A0725080” with respect to the markings I listed above. Performance between these two “Taiyo Yudens” is remarkably and vastly different. That this poor performance from the Meritline.com discs happened with two different cakeboxes is alarming and smells of something rotten.

I am calling Taiyo Yuden USA for any information they might have, and to determine if and then alert them of the possibility of mislabeled and/or fakes being sold in their home headquarters’ state (California). Meritline.com will be getting a call today as well to make good on this mess.

Meritline will play dumb. (which they are). But the ATIP code cannot be ignored.
At the least, this is VERY old media, and 24/32x rated. At worst, it’s faked. But I can assure you that TY would never rate this media at 52x.

We used to burn this stuff at 40x with pretty good results, but 24x or 32x (drive dependant) is best. You may even find this media in the CDR test forum.

Was it in a typical TY cakebox?

only 8x at a higher speed that scan would look much worser,anyway
compared to mine that dont look so good
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1083533&postcount=94
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=1087284&postcount=95
dvd burners arent the greatest for cdrs

Serial numbers looks genuine. But this must be very old stock if it is real media.

A brief history of TY CDR’s:

1st came the 16x type, which was later re-rated to 24x. The ATIP code shows a lead-out or “nominal capacity” of 79.59.74 .

Next came the 24x type, nominal capacity of 79.59.73 . This was later re-rated at 32x by TY.

Finally came the 40x, (79.59.72), which was later re-rated to 48x and 52x.

I don’t think we’ve ever seen these codes faked, but there’s a first time for everything. The posted scans aren’t all that terrible really, but certainly you wouldn’t expect a current burner to be able to handle this old media well.

phil_
It was burned @48x but scanned @8x CLV in PlexTools Pro.

i noticed that what i was sayin is that higher scan speed will bring higher errors and i think 8x is too low

Plextools won’t allow scanning speed higher than 10-24 CAV, but recomended speed is 4x CLV for greater precision.

I spoke with Taiyo Yuden USA today. The very patient and nice man in the CD-R department thought that my description of the discs and the cakebox sounded as if the media was actual Taiyo Yuden. He pointed out that the frosted/foggy/opaque plastic hub , to his knowledge, has not been faked yet, the alphanumeric code etched on the top surface of the plastic hub sounded appropriate, and the packaging, as represented on Meritline’s website photo display which corresponded to my packaging, appeared authentic. He also said that Microboards Technology is their distributor (?) in the USA and to call them for possible direct purchase of TY media or references of whom they sell to so that I can buy media from those retailers. He offered to send some authentic TY CD-R media (very cool!!) so that I can test it out on my burners and see if the high error rates are due to bad media from Meritline or an incompatability of my hardware/software with Taiyo Yuden, something that he doubts, especially since Taiyo Yudens are the media of choice for Plextor and since I was able to write with low errors on Fuji branded MIJ Taiyo Yudens. I sent him a copy of this thread (he knew quite well of CDFreaks!) and some .png’s of disc quality scans of the Fuji media. He is going to do some research and let me know the results within a few days.

Will post as more of the story becomes known.

Thanks for the followup. I thought it would likely turn out to be real TY, just 24x TY instead of 52x. Typical of Meritline, they probably don’t even know what they’re selling.

Anyway, if you burn it at 24x or 16x, you should have some reliable and high-quality discs. It will also work well for audio.