Is the united states at it's end economically

vbimport

#1

GUY’S
With all the recent meltdowns on wall-street this week.
My question is is it over for us in the UNITED STATES as
an economic power?. Is our currency in play to be used
as wall paper.?
ZAP.:eek::eek:


#2

It’s not limited to the US, it’s more widespread. UK (and I suspect other countries) economy isn’t looking too great either.


#3

Look at the unemployment rates and other indicators and you will see Europe and some other countries are worse off than the USA. We go through these purges periodically and as long as the government doesn’t get too involved things get back on track.

Capitalism requires the weak to be culled from the herd every so often. Once the bad mortgages have moved through the system (probably by June 2009) things will stabilize. Look at the recent rise of the dollar against the Euro. Some of it is due to the perception of investors that the USA is in the best position to rebound economically as compared to other countries. Plus, we still have decent economic growth at 3.1% and the cost of oil is dropping too.

The USA is like the person that drank too much the night before. We got drunk on cheap, readily available mortgages and now we are in the hang over phase and it is a doozy.


#4

A worsted case scenario is that a country like China which is quite capable right now of completely buying the U.S. debt or even a good chuck of it and that would not look to favorable, If you know what I mean.

:cool::cool:


#5

IMO, China has plenty of their own problems and also without our markets they would go into a depression. The world is quickly becoming one big economy and one country can’t do much harm to another without hurting themselves. The same fear cropped up when Japan was doing the same in the 1980s. I would actually like to see China buy into some of these failing companies. If these companies do fail then it is the Chinese that lose money (just like it was the Japanese last time) instead of Americans.

It is the way of capitalism to weed out the failing companies and eliminate markets that are no longer viable. It also allows our economy to adjust faster, and therefore rebound faster, than most other countries. Right now we are figuring out who the winners and losers are from the mortgage mess. For every dollar lost someone made a dollar. The guys that made the dollars are keeping their powder dry right now and will step in when the market reaches the bottom and buy up what is left. This happens periodically in the USA and will happen again in the future.

Also, don’t equate the drop in the stock market directly as money lost. The real loss, if there is one, is when someone actually sells a stock for less than they paid for it. Anyone that says they lost money because they didn’t sell at the peak of the market is just day dreaming. When it comes to stock the only real money is the cold hard cash you hold in your hands. Everything else is just speculating.


#6

[quote=zap em;2128390]With all the recent meltdowns on wall-street this week. My question is is it over for us in the UNITED STATES as an economic power?. Is our currency in play to be used as wall paper.? ZAP.:eek::eek:[/quote]Don’t bet any money on that you’re not willing to lose! Things have been [I][B]much[/B][/I] worse and ultimately got better.

I don’t think all this is really as bad as it may seem now. The US real estate market was unrealistically inflated and is now in the process of correcting itself. Banks and other lenders imprudently bought into this combination of pipe dreams and substance too heavily, so they’re now paying the price. Some won’t survive, but poorly managed businesses often don’t deserve to survive.

My guess is we’ll emerge from this mess financially stronger than ever. And it won’t take as long as you might think.


#7

Hi,[quote=larc919;2128448] Banks and other lenders imprudently bought into this combination of pipe dreams and substance too heavily, so they’re now paying the price.[/quote]The ugly thing is, the price is paid by the tax payers and by those who now face unemployment.

The profits filled the wallets of the shareholders, the losses are expected to be paid by all. :frowning:

The millions and billions of USD/EUR/GPB spent by governments to “save” these gambling giants are now missed somewhere else (education, health etc.).

Unfortunately, this seems to apply to all economies at least in the western world.

Michael


#8

[quote=mciahel;2128486]Hi,The ugly thing is, the price is paid by the tax payers and by those who now face unemployment.

The profits filled the wallets of the shareholders, the losses are expected to be paid by all. :frowning:

The millions and billions of USD/EUR/GPB spent by governments to “save” these gambling giants are now missed somewhere else (education, health etc.).

Unfortunately, this seems to apply to all economies at least in the western world.

Michael[/quote]

In a nutshell, to much greed.

:cool::cool:


#9

Technically, most of the rest of the world is being dragged down by the USA … since the USA was always the Mountain … stable & towering over everything else … so the rest of the world was borrowing money from all the US companies/money lenders.

Now, while the USA is drowning in it’s debts & bad decisions, it turns out that the mountain is just a big rock, and will drag the rest of the world down.


#10

We’ll get through it like a great boxer does when knocked down and gets up at the last count,and wins by KO…

VIVA La VIDA LOCA!


#11

[QUOTE=debro;2128630]Technically, most of the rest of the world is being dragged down by the USA … since the USA was always the Mountain … stable & towering over everything else … so the rest of the world was borrowing money from all the US companies/money lenders.

Now, while the USA is drowning in it’s debts & bad decisions, it turns out that the mountain is just a big rock, and will drag the rest of the world down.[/QUOTE]

Ask Africa what country has stepped up to help them in any meaningful way. Research into which country gives the most foreign aid year after year. What country has spilled more of its own blood to protect/restore the freedom of the repressed. Yeah, we are certainly a big drag on the rest of the world.

Don’t believe all you hear from the politicians about the state of our economy and our resilience. They just want power and will say anything to get it. As for debt, you need to look into how much debt other so called enlightened countries carry as a percentage of their GNP. In reality, we don’t look so bad after all.


#12

It’s not the government which is causing the debt & bailing out a large financial company before it kills the economy is a great idea, although the government should take over it, bullshit claims of communism be damned, since they’ve paid for the damn thing :stuck_out_tongue:

All the banks/financial institutions have been acting stupidly … insuring against losses on the stockmarket … handing out insurance for losses on the stock market, compounded by handing out $$$ to people which couldn’t be trusted to give you back a fiver borrowed last week.

A lot of inflated bravado has been seen as investors gamble on stocks, hoping for a huge payout, but buffered if they fail, thanks to the insurances - If you’re immortal, why not dive off a cliff, just in case it’s lots of fun :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s like taking insurance out on a $5K bet that the dodgers are gonna win this week … but it gets worse … you don’t lose either way, so might as well make it $50K … and the bank foots the bill, and you personal loss is only $5K … but the potential win could be huge.

A good contributor to the stock markets decline is because much of the money being thrown around doesn’t actually exist … ever … but people are pulling it out now … because the stock market is declining.


#13

As long as you have things like future trading and short and long trading in the market you are going to have big problems. It they would stop these then the market could get back to something that means something.

Future trading sounds good since you can purchase something at todays price and if it goes up or down you do not have to worry about that. The problem is when people who are greedy and most are buy things that they have not real use for but are just betting on the price going up or down in the future. People or countries who have a lot of money can do things to make the market go the way they want it to make money. Oil is a good example they have determined that some traders have through future trading pushed up the price to higher prices so they in turn could make a lot of money.

This is also done with short and long trading.


#14

… and when a financial institution, corporation or Mom and Pop store acts too foolishly they go out of business. People who invest unwisely with their money lose it in the stock market. It is Darwin’s Law applied to economics. Money doesn’t disappear. For every actual dollar someone lost there is someone who received it. We all like to dwell on the negative when in actuality over 95% of all mortgages are being paid on time and 94% of the U.S. population is employed. Add to this that growth for the last quarter was 3.1% and oil prices are falling the the outlook isn’t nearly as gloomy as some like to believe. Obama wants to convince us the economy is tanking because he wants to scare people into voting for him. Don’t believe everything you read because the press is in the tank for Obama and there are trying to spread the same BS for his political benefit.

You are right about much of the money in the stock market not physically existing. Unless someone actually sold stock at its peak value they never had that money in their possession. They just had the “potential” of having that much money. That being said, I sure wish I had bought 1,000 shares of Microsoft stock in the early 1980s.


#15

[QUOTE=samlar;2128722]As long as you have things like future trading and short and long trading in the market you are going to have big problems. It they would stop these then the market could get back to something that means something.

Future trading sounds good since you can purchase something at todays price and if it goes up or down you do not have to worry about that. The problem is when people who are greedy and most are buy things that they have not real use for but are just betting on the price going up or down in the future. People or countries who have a lot of money can do things to make the market go the way they want it to make money. Oil is a good example they have determined that some traders have through future trading pushed up the price to higher prices so they in turn could make a lot of money.

This is also done with short and long trading.[/QUOTE]

The real problem is that they let people lock up a large amount of commodities with little money down. If the futures traders had to ante up even 50% of the purchase price then most of the speculation would stop because they would have too much money at risk.


#16

Yes your right the 50 percent would help but they should have some rule stating that all trades must have a to track the trade. I am sure there are other rules they need to if not the stop future trading. I hate to think when I was paying 5 dollars a gallion for gas that half of it was due to future tading but I know it was true.


#18

[B]MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF U.S. TREASURY SECURITIES[/B]

Link: http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

:cool::cool:


#19

What is really bad is the number on the list that we are giving aid to while they own our securities