Is the burner faulty or the player?

i have been having nothing but grief and i seem to be getting more confused as i go. Perhaps someone can help clarify for me.
Standalone dvd player- panasonic f65

My first burner was sony dru530a. I had no idea about media so i just bought whatever was on sale. I started to notice playback problems jerkyness and mostly some green pixalization would happen. (btw on my computer playback would be fine but i was told that burners can playback almost anything).

So i became frustraded and bought a plextor px716a and all my troubles went away, or so it seemed. i started getting the same pixaling again. So i slowed down my burn speed and i thought it helped, but still on some dvd’s i still get it. So i did a little more research on media. At first i was using Cicero brand from Futureshop. It has a manufacture code of Mcc which i though was supposed to be good. But still on some dvd’s it seemed at random i would still get pixel of green , not through the whole movie but enough to be annoying. So i bought tdk8x+r and still have had the same problem. i checked plextors recommended media and bought some verbatium16x which is a recomended media. When i ran the p/e tests i thought they turned out well

PlexTools Professional V2.23 Q-Check PI/PO Test
Copyright © 1999-2005 Plextor SA/NV
Wednesday, June 22, 2005

              PIE        POE        POF
   Avg       0.13          -          -
   Max         10          -          -
 Total       9583          -          0

And when i ran the TA test the disk reads as very good or good sometimes.

So i burned the same movie again and when i play it on my panasonic i still get the corruption i did before.

So do you thinks its my media,my burner or my player? i assumed that with good disks such as verbatium any player should be able to read them.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated

Actually, the media code for the Cicero’s is probably CMC, not MCC, and Plextors + CMC … well, the story is mixed. You did right to switch to TDK and Verbatim, the Plextors (712 & 716) like those codes.

BTW, Futureshop is having a sale on Fuji 8× +R media: C$39.99 for 100, and C$10.99 for a 25 pack. This is a great price because they are almost certainly Taiyo Yuden YUDEN000-T02 discs (+R only, don’t get the -R!). Free shipping, you can’t beat that price…

A total of 9583 PIE is excellent, but perhaps you should also do a SUM-8 (PIF) scan, and also a beta/jitter scan as well, to rule out problems in those areas.

The real test, though, would be to take your Verbatim disc over to a friend’s house and try it on their DVD set-top player. If it plays without pixelation, then I think your Panasonic unit is far too picky.

Welcome to the Forums, rjxox, and let us know how you do.

rjxox, are you sure that the pixelation you see is not a part of the source material you burn to DVD, or that it is not created as part of some video encoding or re-encoding steps you perform before burning?

I’m burning verbatim 16x +r’s on my plextor 716a, at 16x and they play just like the originals on both my Panasonic and my Onkyo.

The ty02/max02/verbat +16R all are fine so far.

Thankyou for the suggestions/help.
In reply to ftp1020. i checked those ciceros again and they do show mcc. i understand now why you didnt think they did, The verbatim also show mcc. The first test i did on the verbatium was the sum 8 test i guess i just didnt post it all. By the way im not sure if it matters or not but it was one movie recorded it wasnt a full Dvd.

PlexTools Professional V2.23 Q-Check PI/PO Test
Copyright © 1999-2005 Plextor SA/NV
Wednesday, June 22, 2005

              PIE        POE        POF
   Avg       0.13          -          -
   Max         10          -          -
 Total       9583          -          0

heres my beta jitter test which sure looks all over the place to me. The info in plextor tools says the line should be horizontal. Also i notice in the manual the chart numbers on the bottom goto 100 and on my chart they only goto5 maybe that makes it look worse then it is.

i saw that future shop had a sale on fuji disks but i didnt know if they were going to be good or not. How do you tell without actually buying some and trying them? Are Taiyo Yuden YUDEN000-T02 discs the best discs?

DrageMester -
when i view the source material on my computer before i burn it i dont see any pixelation at all. i have tried viewing the mpeg or avi with windows media player and also i have tried viewing the finished product before burning and still no pixelation. And i have also viewed the dvd on my computer and it doesnt show any pixelation. So i assume its not my source material. Do you agree?

One thing i dont understand is why some dvds play fine on my machine even on the lower quality media, and then the same media with a different title on it might give me grief.



rjxox, I can’t speak intelligently about your beta/jitter graph, although that is very odd result.

Actually, when I look at jitter again, that is normal jitter pattern for a y000-t02-00 burn on a 716a. I know what to try: change your range on the graph to +0.5 and -0.5 and your beta reading might flatten out. Right now, it’s set so narrow that it will make it look bigger than it is, if I’m reading this right.

I used to get pixelation from two things on my system: I did not defragment my drive as regularly as I should have, and I have had two originals I backed up where the originals played fine on the player, BUT when I burned a copy that was reauthored/compressed to my HD, some pixelation showed up. It is sometimes possible that if the original DVD is made by a smaller DVD distributor that it could play fine on a player or on a burner, but then show some pixelation because the original isn’t really that good, so when you reauthor and compress the copy to your HD, the pixelation shows up. That was the test 1clickdvdcopy told me to do, as they said if the original was good quality, no pixelation would show up after the compression. After 50 burns with no problem, it appears their advice was spot on. So, the true test is if you see pixelation from your compressed copy played from the HD, it’s likely the source isn’t great quality. Another possibility is if you have to use a high % of compression that you might get pixelation. 1clickdvdcopy veteran users that defragment their HDs regularly say they have burned copies with up to 60% compression with no pixelation. Some recommend disabling copying “DTS audio,” as the Dolby audio takes less space and sometimes the DTS audio being included can push your compression needed too high and result in pixelation. Otherwise, good media can also help. I’ve noticed that my Fuji 8x DVD+R (y000-t02-00) are excellent and although I’ve only read of of 3-4 that said it in another forum, that if they burned with y000-t02-00 (as opposed to another brand like Ritek), they never had pixelation trouble where the source was good.

That’s as much as I know. I’m not familiar with your brand of Panasonic DVD Player, so I can’t offer any suggestions on how to know if it’s the player.

Since I started defragmenting my hard drive after every reauthored/compressed copy to my HD (I mean I watch the copy from the HD, burn the copy to DVD, then delete the folder with the files–then defragment), I’ve not had pixelation problems.

I just reread what FTP said, and it’s an excellent idea: take your movie to a friend’s house to play on that DVD player. If it plays fine, then your player is ‘picky.’ I happen to have a Panasonic S25S that seems to play everything well I’ve burned on RitekG05, Maxell (RitekG05) and Fuji (y000-t02-00). But I also noticed that you said something about TDKs. Here at Best Buys, the TDKs in 50pks are CMC-MAG-E01-00 mid, and they are low quality in my experience.

That same disk worked fine on a friends el cheapo dvd player. Guess my burner must be fine and maybe my player has just started to get more “picky” as time goes on.

thx for the help.

Really? I wonder if they’re fakes or legitimately licensed. Considering that “Cicero” is Futureshop-speak for “budget”, I’d be suspicious fer shure.

i understand now why you didnt think they did, The verbatim also show mcc. The first test i did on the verbatium was the sum 8 test i guess i just didnt post it all. By the way im not sure if it matters or not but it was one movie recorded it wasnt a full Dvd.

Sorry, I meant to say “SUM-1” (PIF) test, not SUM-8 (PIE). PIFs are a more reliable predictor of pixelation than PIE.

heres my beta jitter test which sure looks all over the place to me. The info in plextor tools says the line should be horizontal. Also i notice in the manual the chart numbers on the bottom goto 100 and on my chart they only goto5 maybe that makes it look worse then it is.

It could be a scaling issue, but it sure does look bizarre! There’s been a number of bizarro-looking jitter results from 716-burned CDRs, so I don’t honestly know if it’s something to be concerned about.

i saw that future shop had a sale on fuji disks but i didnt know if they were going to be good or not. How do you tell without actually buying some and trying them? Are Taiyo Yuden YUDEN000-T02 discs the best discs?

Well, Verbatim MCC03 might give the TY Yuden000-T02 discs a run for their money in the 8x arena, but they’re definitely in the top echelon of quality media. I guarantee you that you won’t find a better quality at that price. Blankmedia.ca has TY-branded (not Fuji-branded) Yuden000-T02’s and they’re selling them for C$65.95 per 100 - almost twice as much.

I’ve used the Fuji TY Yuden000-T02’s and they produce consistently excellent quality burns.

That same disk worked fine on a friends el cheapo dvd player. Guess my burner must be fine and maybe my player has just started to get more “picky” as time goes on.

Ma, I bought you a “new” DVD player!!! :bigsmile:

lol Yes i told her we are getting a new one. Thx for all the help

rjxox:

Your dvdplayer seems to play everything (+/-R/RW).
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=panasonic+f65&Search=Search&chipset=&country=&orderby=Name&hits=25

Before you buy a new one, you might want to check the problem disk’s bitset using DVD Identifier. Maybe the disk is set to +R rather than -ROM? Setting the booktype of +R to -ROM increase compatibility for most player.

If the booktype is already DVD-ROM then ftp1020/Quema is probably right, ie your player is too picky.

LOL! You are too funny, FTP! :smiley:

@Zevia, the player possibly being too ‘picky’ is actually ftp’s idea, so all the credit goes to ftp for that. :wink:

ok im a lil confused

heres what dvd identifier says.

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:MCC-004-000]

Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [MCC]
Media Type ID : [004]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x , 6x-16x]

[ DVD Identifier - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]

so it looks like infact it is dvd +r How would i possible change that using roxio7.5 to -rom i dont see that option anywhere

thx

p.s these are those cicero discs i was refering to. they show as mcc

Sorry, can’t help with bitsetting in Roxio. If you use DVDDecrypter (freeware), it’s under Tools|Drive|Change Booktype (you might have to select the Plextor tab).

p.s these are those cicero discs i was refering to. they show as mcc

Very interesting! The only Cicero’s I could find on FS’s web site were for 4x +/-R) DVDs. Interesting, because MCC04 is a 16x +R media. If it really is a 4x disc and the firmware is fooled by a fake 16x MID code, then the result is almost certainly going to be a really bad burn. On the other hand, if Mitsubishi is making MCC04s for Cicero, that could be an intere$ting development…

If it’s not too much trouble, could you post a SUM-8 & SUM-1 scan of one of these Cicero discs, and also mention the speed at which you burned them? Does it say 4x on the cakebox/packaging?

TIA

I really did that when my K6-233 had to make room for my Athlon 1Ghz: “Ma, new computer for ya!”. She’s still using it, too. Win95… :Z

if you have Plextools Pro installed (came with your drive), checking the “Change Booktype for DVD+R” box under “Drive Settings”>>“Advanced” should make bitsetting to DVD-ROM universal among burning applications (as it is set in the drive’s firmware)…

that being said, i’m not so sure that the booktype setting should have any influence on pixelation issues…

rjxox, review what I said on my next to the last post in this thread (http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=140810), but just in case, I’ll reproduce it here, since i needed to add to what I do that seems to help prevent pixelation, but will now add what I should have then:

“I can tell you this: when I reauthor/recompress and burn a DVD, I don’t have any unnecessary programs running in the background. That means I only have on what’s necessary to leave my system operating while the DVD is burning. I shut down my antivirus program and anything else open on my desktop or in the task bar at the bottom. After that, when I start the reauthoring/recompression and burn processes, I then leave my computer alone. That might be something you can try and see if your burn quality improves. Some people report no quality problems ‘multi-tasking’ while burning a DVD, but I’m not one of them–I shut down everything I don’t need running before I start to reauthor/recompress and burn a DVD, and leave the computer to just burn the DVD. Then when it’s finished, I’ll open any programs again that I need.”

Quema34 thz for the advice ill try it.

Btw i emailed plextor the results of my tests with the verbatium disc before you guys had given me all of your advice

I ran the dvd test as you mentioned and the tray opened so according to that test my drive passed. However if this is true then why is my beta jitter test results so bad? According to the manual with results like mine data will not be accurately reproduced and maybe thats why my dvd player is having problems all of a sudden? Did my beta jitter test look normal to you?

and heres what they said:
Ron,

Thank you for contacting Plextor Support.

Please Please provide us with the following infrormation, and if your Plextor device is still in warranty, we will replace it for you:

Maybe its not defective and they are just trying to keep me happy?

FTP1020 here what you wanted. The package had 4x on them when i burn them with my plextor it suggest 8x powerburn. that what i did for these tests. i dont know much about the charts but they sure dont look good.
cicero discs




rjxox, thanks for providing the scans. The pits and lands TA test definitely doesn’t look good. The SUM-1 (PIF) looks reasonable, but the SUM-8 (PIE) test is a little hard to tell because the peaks went off the (100) scale. BTW, rjxox, you can adjust the scale to anything you like: Press the Preferences button and just type in a more appropriate value in the “Error Limit” drop-down. For this scan, I would suggest an error limit of 300; anything beyond 280 is out-of-spec (a coaster) anyways.

Regardless, one thing is clear: these are not Mitsubishi/Verbatim-manufactured MCC04 discs. It’s just not possible to make real MCC04 burn this bad. Thanks for the heads-up that these are fakes.

Too late to get the Fuji’s now, they’re back up to $80 for 100-spindle…

No problem, rjxox. :slight_smile: I just hope it helps.

Concerning beta/jitter: your beta graph looked good, although the jitter was a little higher than I’ve seen with even my graphs or others. Most times, the jitter reading does not intersect the beta like yours did. I have not had great TA graphs (what you posted), but I’ve never seen them that low scored. From what you told FTP, it sounds like those DVDs you got are fake MCC004, unfortunately. See how burns come out with other media, because it could have been the media more than a problem with the burner.