Is Taiyo Yuden losing ground and turning into a second Ritek?

One will quickly notice from experience and from reading the forums that blank media is not made the way it used to before. You see everything from coasters to poor scans to discs going bad in short periods of time.

There was a time I purchased all of my media at my local store and most of the time they were RICOHJPN and worked very nicely. It seems that starting in end 2003 up until now companies have started outsourcing to different places to save on production cost - RICOHJPNs are becoming very rare, and most of it is being replaced with RITEKs. I have always had good luck with RITEK and they have ALWAYS worked for me and never deteriorated…However now that I have finished all of my old batches I notice that new batches are utter garbage - While I have not yet experienced deterioration I have noticed a much higher error rate than before, although well within the specs mind you, but the quality control is almost unexistant. I have recently purchased batches of RIDATA DVD+R, and those are RITEK R03…a media code I have never had issues with with Maxell DVD+R…I would always get low PI and very low totals and low PIFs… The claimed GRADE A RIDATA are far worse, yet the same media code and claimed to be GRADE A media. Again I have not had problems with read errors or deterioration but I notice the quality of those discs are going down rapidly with each new batch.

Now I after reading all the horror stories here I decided that I will not take chances… Eventhough I maintain that I have not had issues with RITEK I have decided to go with Taiyo Yuden given all the praise for quality and longevity… People keep saying it’s one of the TOP media makers.

Well I have made an interesting discovery. After doing some research I found that people are now starting to complain about the TY discs, complaints about defects on the dye and on the outer edge of the discs, oversprays, etc… Doing a search on the forum will reveal those threads and posts… I decided to buy a few spindles of 100 CD-R and a few spindles of 100 DVD+R, all are GENUINE Taiyo Yuden, and on ALL purchases I made, ALL seemed to be of questionable quality compared to the old Taiyo yudens I had from the past. I too have noticed the oversprays and dye defects, sploches, lines and other defects on the media (recording surface) and was SHOCKED to see that with the price I paid, Taiyo Yuden are too cheap to bundle their DVD+R inside cakeboxes instead of the annoying tape wrap they use, yet my CD-Rs came in a cakebox…they decided not to use one for DVD+Rs, it is pathetic to say the least… Many of those discs had dust, fingerprints and a poor printing surface… When I compare this to my RIDATA which have a very smooth white surface and zero defects on the dye… Note that I get those from a major duplication company here locally, who get their stock DIRECTLY from Taiyo USA and all discs are fully verified.

I tried getting some answers from Taiyo and their support proves to be questionable and very bad - They do eventually reply to your e-mail within 2 weeks, and ask you for details…you provide them the details and never hear from them again.

It is obvious to me that the quality control is now an issue, even with Taiyo. I am aware that some of those CD-Rs were VALUE editions…but the stock I got were all the premium grades, including the DVD+Rs, straight from Taiyo…and all the dye defects and lines noticed were NOT scratches but deep within the dye and were present on the unrecorded media.

Is Taiyo turning into a Ritek… Remember Ritek used to make very decent media and now people are avoiding it like plague.

So far I have not had read errors on the Taiyo CD-R despite the thin line present on the center of the disc, on the dye on ALL discs, resembling a tiny worm (rott perhaps?) but I am worried that eventually this will cause problems with the disc, and even more worried about how they claim to have quality control and be ontop of standards?

I have gotten some Maxell CD-R Pro, which use Taiyo Yuden dyes and they were PERFECT, the same way RITEK based Maxells are also great…
You’d expect much the same when getting them straight from Taiyo Yuden don’t you think?

I also find that the PIF totals are quite high on those discs compared to my Maxell DVD+Rs (RITEKR03).

Example:

Maxell DVD+R RitekR03 (burn at 4x)
PIF max 2
PIF Total 130

Taiyo Yuden DVD+R (YUDEN002) (burnt at 4x)
PIF max 4
PIF totals 1730

This is pretty disappointing. Those are results I would expect with class B media…

The same results were obtained using a NEC 3500a, Pioneer DVR110 and LITEON 1633/1653, all with latest firmwares.

You definitly ring a bell here. :iagree:

There is another thread, but less “documented”, entitled “Is the world coming to an end? All DVD media s**ks” or something like that. It’s getting clear that quality control is getting sloppy everywhere. You’ve already seen my thread, “My first bad Verbatims ever”. :frowning:

The increasing success of DVDR media probably explains this, combined with the fact that we live in a global system in which short-term economics prevail over quality and long-term goals.

Whatever. The manufacturers production plants can’t probably keep up with the overall demand (I know it’s at least the reason why Maxell now outsources to Ritek). We’re not in the same situation as we’ve been for the last two years: each and every family gets a standalone recorder, each and every PC owner buys a DVDR burner…

Maybe this will get better in several months, when the production capacities will have adjusted. But it’s also possible that the current situation is the “new” situation we have to face. Considering the economic context, this is sadly a strong possibility. :frowning:

I’m sorry for you, but I’m also happy that from now on you won’t consider me as a looney anymore :wink:

Welcome back :slight_smile:

I totally agree with you. I just got a spindle of 50, 8x taiyo +r , the yuden 000 t02’s, 23 of the discs of a spindle of 50 had issues with the dye on the outter edge. unfortunately, i purchased them from a best buy in the states, and i live in canada so i can’t return them… however, the ‘good’ cds from the batch record great. it’s mix and match lately man.

I also got 2 spindles of 50 ‘grade a’ taiyo yuden 8x -r, tyg02 media and they record like shit for me on my nec 3520, and i’m not about to purchase a new benq just to get better results for media that is supposed to be praised like gold by enthusiasts.

i’m pissed.

I don’t want to bother you, but there is no such thing as so-called “A-grade” Taiyo Yudens. If it’s written on the package, it’s possible that these would be fakes.

What’s the serial (stampercode) at the inner hub? If you don’t find a TGXXX or GGXXX stamper, they’re most probably fakes.

You’re not bothering me man. I was just trying to differentiate between the ‘value line’ and the regular ones that people deem ‘grade a’ or 'premium. … the tyg02’s are gg0000110
therse another number, 0410
and then etched into the plastic ring eg528a301463gg

they were purchased through a reputable seller as well.

Yes after having those experiences I wanted to see if others are having it or if I am jinxed with marginal quality media :slight_smile: So I used the search and I found your threads.

I have to specify again that I have never had any issues with store purchased media. I have gotten Maxells, Memorex, FUJI and Maxell CD-R Pro (Taiyo Yuden) and NONE had ever any defects. The problem I seeing are with stock ordered online and with printables.

Regardin the 52x CD-R printable taiyo yuden, the dye looks nice and even, no defects on the edges of the disc, perfectly round and smooth…only one very thin, about 1 inch long small line towards the center of disc, on the dye, with a slightly lighter colour than the actual dye colour, it’s very thin, very light, you’d have to move and angle the disc in light to barely see it, then again it is visible with a magnifying glass. So far I have not had one coaster and the C1/C2 readings are great, NO C2 errors, no spikes…Maybe the overall error rate slightly higher than Maxell CD-R Pro Taiyos but still well within specs. But I hope these defects will not cause deterioration of data in time.

The funny part is that I have NEVER seen ANY defects with my RITEK media, even the RIDATA, however the PI TOTALS are very high, over 350,000 for a full disc…however the PI max is around 78, with an average of 50… Still WELL WITHIN specs, but compared to other media that average 10-20 PI max, it’s marginal quality. Also I get excellent PIF totals with my RIDATA media, better so than I ever had with any other disc from RICOHJPNR01/02/03, and never any skips or freezes on dvd players. However, what worries me is the high PIF counts and what I hear on forums… so as a precaution I will avoid using these. Just want to make it clear that I have yet to have real problems with RITEK. Many of my colleagues have given me their wedding dvds, that were made on RIDATA DVD-R (RITEKG05) burnt from over a year ago, and it’s all fine and decent error rates. However I’m not arguing that there are reported issues with RITEK and despite what RITEK claims, their RIDATA is certainly not GRADE A media… When using store bought Maxell DVD+R based on RITEK media code I get excellent results with excellent PI/PIF.

Regarding the verbatims now, many people claim they are slightly better than Taiyo - Actually I have seen more defected Verbatims than I have TYs.

The defects posted on this forum along with pictures are far worse than anything I have come across…

Also one note of caution for people ordering online… If you order less than the MINIMUM quantity they come in, they will handle those discs and stack them by hand… often this leaves dust, finger prints and sometimes scratches.

I have never had any defected media for in store media… But noticed this problem with online orders. I have dealt with 4 major online stores, all reputable and in all 4 cases I got media with visible dye defects, despite all discs being GENUINE (after verification) and all being properly shipped and factory sealed. In all cases they refused to pay the return shipping…Why should the customer be responsible to pay for return shipping, the online sellers should get compensation from the media manufacturer in that case.

I have to say that I am utterly disappointed in the customer support service of Taiyo Yuden USA who has proven to be evasive and very uncooperative. Such a big name and solid company would stand behind their products and offer “GRADE A” service…

I have heard rumours from someone, I really cannot verify or validate if it’s entirely true…But he told me that online stores get better prices from blank dvd makers because they are sold extra surplus stock, perhaps stock that have not passed QA and instead of putting it to waste are sold for a lower price to the online retailers… So what you get is surplus junk. It sounds extreme but I do believe in that theory.

The increasing success of DVDR media probably explains this, combined with the fact that we live in a global system in which short-term economics prevail over quality and long-term goals.

Yes I know but I paid a higher price of genuine TYs so there is no excuse, with higher price there should be better control over quality. If I wanted marginal quality media I would pay half and get marginal quality media… When I order TY it’s because I expect the top quality media.

If Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are quickly joining Ritek in the ranks of poor quality control, then we are left with … nothing.

Whatever. The manufacturers production plants can’t probably keep up with the overall demand (I know it’s at least the reason why Maxell now outsources to Ritek). We’re not in the same situation as we’ve been for the last two years: each and every family gets a standalone recorder, each and every PC owner buys a DVDR burner…

Maxell initially used RICOHJPN dyes, they were extremely decent. Then at some point they’ve used their own dyes (MXL), (I have some stock left here and they have extremely high PIF totals as I posted a screenshot in one thread)…but most of the new stock is indeed RITEKR03, and from my experiences they are very decent and burn quite nicely on my 1633/1653… I cannot comment on RITEKG05/G04 those are -R media and I only use +R.

Maybe this will get better in several months, when the production capacities will have adjusted. But it’s also possible that the current situation is the “new” situation we have to face. Considering the economic context, this is sadly a strong possibility. :frowning:

I wonder what Digital Dolphin would have to say about that, and what recourse does a person like me, who orders lots of media, can do about it, other than spending money and being stuck with media…

One last thing I’d like to point out - the printable surface quality. Up until now I have used RIDATA DVD+R 8x media, with the branded logo on the hub, and was surprised of the outstanding quality of the print surface. It looked semi glossy white and had a very smooth feel to it, compared to commercial CDs…Print quality being excellent, and solid colours beign solid without any visible banding, grainyness or lines… When I decided to switch to Taiyo Yuden I expected I would get equal if not better print surface given I pay nearly double… To my biggest surprised I noticed the printable surface on the Taiyo CD-R and DVD+R are garbage in comparaison…They feel much rougher and have a paper texture like feel. Looking at it with a magnifier reveals a paper like texture, as opposed to a smooth white surface. Results, when you print on the surface, any solid colour areas are slightly grainy, much the same effect of printing photos on regular paper… This is totally unacceptable… in some cases the surface had a chalkboard feeling on your hand, not a pleasant feeling, and being so they act like dust magnets and often dust particles will STICK to the printable surface, being very difficult to remove.

I hope someone, somewhere can confront Taiyo Yuden about all this mess…much the same way that guy confronted Maxell and Ritek.

Why the hell does a RIDATA media, costing me half the price, has a premium white inkjet printable surface yet the genuine Taiyos have the marginal quality printed surface, similar to a stick on label!

I’ve seen Riteks, Prodisc, and other brands use very good quality print surfaces…Even the Memorex printable CD-R had a much better print surface.

On my RIDATA media, the ink dries very quickly and when it does, no matter how hard I rub the disc, the print is intact, no smearing, no smudging. As long as I don’t touch with wet hands. However, with the Taiyos, the rubbing did slightly smear the edges of letters, despite having dry hands…only a slight smear, nothing extreme, but overall print quality is lesser.

People should wake up and realise that “MADE IN JAPAN” no longer means, peace of mind and decent media anymore. Also you are more likely to get defect media with printable surfaces than the regular CDs/DVDs.

UPDATE

After a bit of persistence and patience, Taiyo Yuden finally contacted me - The media I have is indeed genuine and they would like me to send them the DVDs directly to them so they can have it inspected in their Japan factory and they offered to replace them as soon as I get mine… PROBLEM is that it will probably cost me as much shipping as the bloody order itself…but it’s the thought that counts nonetheless :slight_smile:

Taiyo Yuden is allways ultra slow when it comes to responding.
About shipping why not ask them to pay for it. They screwed up.

About printable surfaces. I think it is known that Ritek has one of the best surfaces. Only problem is that the quality of the printable media itself seems to fluctuate much. incase of Ritek ( specially G05)
The second best option is probally verbatim.
Incase of TY I noticed the fact that some companies prefer to buy the silvers and do the printable labeling somewhere else because the printable layer works better as TY’s printable layer. :slight_smile:

I think that with the price you pay for those quality printable TY discs it is the least they can do to slap on a decent print surface if RITEK is doing so and I am paying half the price. The print surface on those TY discs are the worst I’ve seen, they are horrible… F grade print surface on a so-called A grade media :smiley:

Yet some misleading online sellers including blankmedia and others claim the print surface is amazing LOL My CD/DVD paper label is more amazing.

:iagree: Tell me about it… I had headaches from performing color calibration on their printable CDRs… :rolleyes:

Yep Ritek is the other way around: A grade printable layer and F grade media…

I personally prefer F grade printable layer over F grade media :wink:

As for TY.

Until today I’ve NEVER had a bad TY disc @ certified speed. So I’m happy. I’ve had some coasters, but that has all been due to DVD-Writer quality issues. Like some Lite-On and TY CD-R and some samsung writers and any media - including TY…

Of course :). But sometimes depends on usage. It happens from time to time that I have to make pristine good-looking discs (for promotional goals) that don’t need to live much longer than three weeks… I don’t use TY for these (I keep them for myself;))

Sounds strange. I think ive bought some 1000 TYG02 discs within a few months. I also use TY cdr these days and i have yet to see a bad disc or have a complaint from any friend who bought some. I also buy some Ritek/Ridisc/Datawrite just to have some fun and there’s no competition compatibility wise. This regards burner and player. -I’ve seen ppl here separating discs, putting discs in ovens and stuff and afterwards telling about bad brands (Mainly TY and Verbatim) - yeah sure.

Only things that worries me lately is that Prodisc is worlds biggest producer and some Verbatims now are made by Ritek. That really sux

Prodisc isn’t world bigest producer.
Worlds biggest DVD manufacturer seems to be CMC.
Worlds biggest optical media manufacturer seems to be Ritek.
Worlds biggest cd-r manufacturer seems to be MBIL these days. (Most taiwanese compannies switched lines to dvd production.)

Sorry - I was referring to this http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=151244&highlight=prodisc and this http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=151989

Basically i don’t care if Verbatim has Riteks or Prodisc is bigger. If they (Ritek or Prodisc) make good discs it’s ok with me. These days it just doesn’t seem so :frowning:

Well we obviously come to different results :slight_smile: What kind of inkjet printer are you using ? Model / brand ? Are you using genuine ink or refill/oem ?

Whether you use A grade or F grade surfaces, it is very difficult to get a perfect match in colour, this is known on most printers…that’s why you have ICC profiles.

Personally I have not had to calibrate colours on my R200 and Taiyo Yuden printable CDRs… My complaint is about the quality of the surface finish, it’s not as glossy like, smooth finish as RITEKs, otherwise the colours are vibrant and nice… :slight_smile:

A little tip - when printing don’t use default modes you will almost always get off colours, you will notice greens become slightly blueish tint and reds become slightly orange tints - The trick I use, on my R200 is to select ICC (third option) and leave the “no color correction” box UNCHECKED. The software will magically correct and attempt to match as much as possible. When using this method my printed results are outstanding and virtually match the colours I see on my screen…greens are greens, reds are reds…yellow is yellow, not greenish or orange. Same on my HP printer, I use the sRGB printing profile rather than the default modes…so far so good! :slight_smile:

LOL good point - Although my RIDATA (RITEKR03-002) white printable give out kprobes that are well within specs…

I don’t have a scan handy but as an example for a FULL disc, burnt at 4x,

PI max 35 PI TOTALS little over 350,000
PIF max 2 PIF total little over 100

As you can see I get excellent totals, and most of the PIFs are 1, with only 2 or 3 out of the whole bunch that go up to 2… Those are outstanding readings… I would get PIF totals in the thousands on made in japan brands like Maxell (with media code MXL). As to the PIFs, on my riteks they are constant on all the disc, but the total is high, at 350,000 it’s a bit high (that was scanned on a 1633 too, which is high… on the 411S/811S, forget it, skyrocket :slight_smile: ) Despite these results well within specs, the PI totals and readings are not outsanding, and I’m afraid they could get worse in times. The PIF readings are great though, and that is what is the most important for now.

I could never burn those RIDATA 8x at their rated speed either…And besides, I would personally never recommend burning a DVD VIDEO over 4x, those are the quality standards used by major duplication houses, which use 4x for DVD VIDEO and max 8x for CD AUDIO…although if the reading is done on a PC, no problem, but it might cause problems with some dvd players.

As for TY.

Until today I’ve NEVER had a bad TY disc @ certified speed. So I’m happy.
I’ve had some coasters, but that has all been due to DVD-Writer quality issues. Like some Lite-On and TY CD-R and some samsung writers and any media - including TY…

I have a LITEON 1633S converted to 1653, and I have no complaints, it’s a great writer for the media I use - and an excellent writer for CD-R compared to older liteon drives… I remember my old LITEON CD-Writer, it never burnt media with such good readings.

LOL!!! That has to be the funniest thing I’ve read today :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: BTW, I never put mine in ovens :smiley: I only use them as coasters for coffee mugs when necessary :wink:

Only things that worries me lately is that Prodisc is worlds biggest producer and some Verbatims now are made by Ritek. That really sux

Are you sure about that or are you putting them in ovens :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Unless the Taiyo Yuden representative I spoke with about some defective/misrepresented genuine TY CD-R was fibbing, there are in fact “A Grade” Taiyo Yuden CD-R’s. (For the whole crazy story see http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=146764&highlight=bulletx)

Extrapolating from that fact, I would have to bet on that there are different “Grades” of TY DVD media as well.

My contact (telephone) was direct, prompt, collabrative and informative. I was treated like a valued customer even though I had never had occasion to speak with the company before. Maybe I was lucky with my encounter with Taiyo Yuden. Maybe my demeanor facillitated a positive encounter.

No matter what, the few TY discs I have encountered with surface/manufacturing issues is far outweighed by the consistency and quality from spindle to spindle I have seen. I can not say the same about most everyone else in the market.

When did Taiyo Yuden start “Tape Wrapping” their DVD media “bundles”? This is very suspicious. From my experience and discussions with Taiyo Yuden as of last month the DVD+R’s come in plastic cakebox with central spindle and a circular disc of paper on top with many languages printed on it.

If yours came differently, and you are in the USA, then either this is brand new packaging for the USA, a proprietary packaging from your retailor/distributor, or are not authentic Taiyo Yuden. I sure hope this is not a new cost cutting trend from Taiyo Yuden USA!