Is MCC004 *only* meant for hi-speed burning?

vbimport
#1

Hey folks!

So I was a little bored this evening… and decided to conduct a few experiments with my current burner & media.

Burner = LG GSA-H22N
Media = Verbatim (WIJHP) MCC004

Boy, let me tell you… was I surprised at some of my results! Please have a look…

Here’s a 16X (CAV) burn, scanned at 4X (1ECC)…

2w3qfy0.png645x523

Not a bad burn, if I might say so myself! This result is almost TOO good.

Now… here’s a 4X-6X (Z-CLV) burn of the same media (from the same batch), scanned first at 4X (1ECC), then at 8X (8ECC) just for comparison sake…

33dfok2.png645x523


2qdorpc.png645x523

Isn’t that just something? Here’s the real kicker… the TRT is almost perfect, which is the exact opposite of what I was expecting for such a gross burn…

2laqadv.png645x523

So I don’t get it… is there no low-speed write strategy for MCC004 and my LG burner? Or is this just a case where the laser spent too long being focussed?

I’m super confused… especially at the near-perfect TRT that followed! Shouldn’t it have been horrible?

I wonder if BenQ is the culprit, and doesn’t like low-speed burns…

Hmm! Weird, huh? Perhaps I have given someone something to think about?

Please get back to me if you can shed some light on the subject!

For now… I’ll stick to 16X. :iagree:

#2

Just tried it in my standalone DVD player… wouldn’t even register.

Go figure!

#3

Well many people find verbatim writes well at 8x or 12x. While your 16x burn is great, your results at 4x are absolute rubbish. I posted a 4x burn in my H22N below.

Generally I find verbatim burns well at almost all speeds. I get more errors towards the end of a disc at high speed though.

But yeah, higher speed for high speed media works good :stuck_out_tongue:

LG H22N @ 4x Jitter scan.png645x531 42 KB

#4

It could be a glitch of the burner. (Wouldn’t be the first time that something like this happens at LG!)

#5

Thanks for the input cd_pirate! :flower: I had a hunch that higher speeds were better…

You don’t happen to know if there’s any downside to the P-CAV writing method of 12X on the H22N… do you? All I know is that (6x/8x) Z-CLV is currently frowned upon…

#6

I also noticed that MCC004 media has slightly more PIFs when burnt at 4x speed, however it’s not that dramatic as in your case. I think your LG is the problem…

#7

P-CAV is superior to Z-CLV in any way. :slight_smile:

Z-CLV should be ok if it is implemented properly, but it often isn’t. :frowning:

#8

On the LG drive(s)? Maybe.
In general? Absolutely not. CLV is easier to get right than CAV, and since Z-CLV is just 2-4 CLV zones stitched together, it’s easier to get it right than P-CAV where you have a CAV zone with constantly changing speed.

The only way P-CAV is superior to Z-CLV is that it will take less time all other things being equal.

Z-CLV should be ok if it is implemented properly, but it often isn’t. :frowning:
I think that CAV and P-CAV are more often poorly implemented than Z-CLV.

As to the original question, MCC 004 is true multi-speed media, so the problem is either very poor low speed burning strategies in the LG drive or a whacky scanning drive or a combination of both.

#9

Thanks for all the input, guys!

I vote for poor low-speed burning strategies in my LG…

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[ 4x/6x Z-CLV ]
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[ 16x CAV ]
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[ attempt at comparing both side-by-side ]
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Notice anything?

The 6x-burnt zone of the first disc is MUCH darker than the 16x-burnt zone of the entire second disc. To the best of my knowledge, it should be the other way around, right?

If I am correct… the higher the writing speed, the less time taken to burn the dye, the darker the zone. Precisely why 4X is so darn bright. :smiley:

Would anybody like to agree?

IMO, something funky happened when my burner went from 4x to 6x. :rolleyes:

PS- Sorry about the dust & scratches. Don’t worry, they were accidently put there AFTER the super-clean scans. :iagree:
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#10

Wait a second! I just realized something! :doh:

There is no 6X writing speed available through Nero Burning Rom… just 4X / 8X / 12X / 16X / 18X.

I happen to have chosen ImgBurn to experiment with tonight. They have ALL the speeds available to burn at… 1X through 56X. I must have picked 6X based on what I’ve been used to doing with my NEC AD-7170A. :o

Could it be that no actual 6X writing strategy exists for LG drives like it does for NEC drives? :sad: OR… now that I think about it, would this be a media limitation?

#11

If you pick 6x burning speed in ImgBurn and the drive doesn’t support writing at that speed, then it will chose another speed instead - probably the next lower speed, which in this case is 4x.

#12

ImgBurn definitely burned the second zone at 6X though – I remember distinctly.

The DVDInfoPro graph (that I’m hitting myself for not saving) showed a Z-CLV line quite similar to what I’m used to seeing when I burn discs at 8X. The only difference was… instead of it jumping from 4X to 8X, it only jumped to 6X.

So I guess this means that my LG GSA-H22N supports 6X writing – just not with Verbatim MCC004 media. Right?

#13

I’m curious to know if anyone has burned MCC004 media at 6X – in ANY drive…

#14

Well, my LiteOn supports 6x. I’ll burn an MCC 004 (Prodisc made) @ 6x today later on and post a scan. :slight_smile:

#15

Thank you! That should tell us whether it’s the media or the burner. :iagree:

#16

I have burned MCC004 Made in India at 6x in an Optiarc AD-7173A, in an Optiarc AD-7170A and in a Plextor PX-712A.

I have burned MCC004 Made by CMC at 6x in a Plextor PX-712A, at 6x in a Matshita UJ-840S (laptop drive), at 4x in a NEC ND-4551A, at 2.4x in a NEC ND-3500AG, and at 1x or whatever real-time recording is in a Sony RDR-HX910 HDD/DVD Recorder.

All of these were at least acceptable, and in general as good as burns at higher speeds.

So as I said earlier, MCC004 is true multi-speed media. Poor firmware support can ruin any burn however.

#17

Wow! That’s quite reasuring, especially for my AD-7170A! :clap:

I suppose then that LG simply has poor 6X (Z-CLV) firmware support / write strategies, at least for MCC004 media. :disagree:

As soon as I get some different media, I’ll see if I can successfully burn a TY02 or something @ 6X for y’all.
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#18

Just out of curiousity… what I just did (write a disc at a non-firmware supported speed) won’t hurt my burner, will it?

Obviously the action has damaged the disc…

#19

Your burner should be fine regardless of burning speed, but your discs are getting butchered. :wink:

#20

My LG 4167 does not have a 6x burning speed. I can set things like ImgBurn to 6x but it will just use 8x.
But I have found with the MCC 004’s burnt in my 4167 that it does better at 8x (so I use this speed 90% of the time) over 12x and 16x, and the Jitter is better at 4x, over 8x but the QS results are not so much better for the time taken, so I use 8x.

Here is a DVD Identifier report of a MCC 004, what I have always wanted to know is why there are doubles of some of the speed Descriptors…
What it also says is…

Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x , 6x-16x]

** INFO : Drive = HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B - [FW DL13]
** INFO : Write Capabilities = DVD+R DVD+R-DL DVD+RW
** INFO : Write Capabilities = DVD-R DVD-R-DL DVD-RW DVD-RAM
** INFO : Disc = [DVD+R:MCC-004-000]
** INFO : Reference Speed : 1x DVD = 1385 kBps
** INFO : An Writeable Disc Is Recommended For Accurate Results
** INFO : Write Speeds (Supported By This Drive On This Disc) Listed Below

** INFO : GET PERFORMANCE Write Speed Descriptor(s)
Descriptor #1 = 22161 kBps (16.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #2 = 22160 kBps (16.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #3 = 16621 kBps (12.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #4 = 16620 kBps (12.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #5 = 11081 kBps ( 8.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #6 = 11080 kBps ( 8.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]
Descriptor #7 = 5540 kBps ( 4.00x) - [CLV/Non-Pure CAV]