Is it best to scrap a burned CD/DVD if they are failing verifications?

Newbie Forum
#1

Hey all, not sure where to post this question, and I’m a newbie… So go figure :doh:

Anyhow, I burned some data onto a Signalex CD-R, so cheapies I got from Poundland a year ago. Just verified the disc using ImgBurn, as you do, and the disc produced verification errors in three places; One at 47%, another at 76%, and lastly one at 99%.

The question is, this disc was the master disc stored in a folder for the past 6 to maybe 9 months, but I have the contents on my hard drive and other discs so producing copies shouldn’t be a problem if one needs to be done.

Although most of my discs are perfectly readable despite these errors, that doesn’t concern me compared to how long the disc will last and readability sustainability. (Er? :confused: ) should I just scrap this disc and use the new one as the master?

EDIT - The irony of this post is that the disc refuses to be read by my Phillips writer, instead, Windows XP suggests that disc is blank and asks me what to do. Is this a sign of an unreadable disc? :sad:

#2

Rather a sign of Philips. :slight_smile:

Anyhoo, if you are absolutely sure you’re data is safe on multiple places, then i guess it’s pretty safe to destroy that scratched thing.

But why not keep it if it does not bother you? Just mark it or something.

#3

Interesting remark Mr Belvedere. Although this drive is getting on a bit, actually salvaged from a Packard Bell iMedia 1308, it has never really let me down and is updated to the latest firmware. If anybody’s interested :stuck_out_tongue:

However, the disc in question isin’t scratched - and hazarding a guess, it seems to be either a drive problem, or more likely a disc problem. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for with discs :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m asking because soon after I posted it, it refused to be recognised by Windows XP, just saying it is a blank disc when there are blue ring markings which indicates a burned disc.

I’m going to burn off a duplicate disc… and use that as the master instead :bigsmile:

Doubly so, I’ll leave this question open so we can sort out this palaver.

The media code is a Plasmon 97m27s18f, if that helps?

#4

Before to get rid of the original disc, I suggest to run a memtest.

In fact, also a damaged RAM stick can cause verification errors.

Moreover, you don’t have any guarantee that the copy stored in your hard disk is integer: it is possible that the CD is the correct copy and there is something wrong in HDD. So, I also suggest to run a test tool (every manufacturer has such a tool available for free download) to be sure that HDD is not damaged.

If you believe that files in HDD are integer, then I suggest to make a backup copy adding parity data so even if the support become damaged you can still recover original data.

The easiest way to do this is using WinRAR. Make an archive as follow:

[ul]
[li]select no compression (i.e. the [B]Store[/B] option) to save time, but this step is not mandatory
[/li][li]select [B]Put Recovery Record[/B] option
[/li][li]go to [B]Advanced[/B] tab and select the amount of recovery data to be inserted in the archive. 5% is a huge amount but you can also set the maximum if you like (i.e. 10%)
[/li][/ul]

When the archive is done, you can store it on HDD or burn it on a CD or DVD and store it in a safe place :slight_smile:

#5

[QUOTE=geno888;2540092]Before to get rid of the original disc, I suggest to run a memtest.

In fact, also a damaged RAM stick can cause verification errors.

Moreover, you don’t have any guarantee that the copy stored in your hard disk is integer: it is possible that the CD is the correct copy and there is something wrong in HDD. So, I also suggest to run a test tool (every manufacturer has such a tool available for free download) to be sure that HDD is not damaged.

If you believe that files in HDD are integer, then I suggest to make a backup copy adding parity data so even if the support become damaged you can still recover original data. [/QUOTE]

I don’t mean to antagonise your worthy holiness, :bow: but I don’t see how that was relevant. :confused:

I fail to see how the hard drive is bad when it is perfectly readable and all the files on there are accessible. How, if I may ask, can the CD burns be (now) good if they are throwing up verification errors on ImgBurn, but I can tell you, the hard drive is in a good condition as it was when it was first installed in September '03.

The discs are to be scrapped and reburned again. Sorry mate, but you lost me on that one!

#6

My point is: are you completely sure that data stored in HDD are reliable?

If there is a malfunctioning in hard drive, data read from the disk can be unreliable, so when you run a comparison between CD and data stored in HDD you can get differences even if the original CD is integer.

If the HDD is failing the reason why you get verification errors is because the HDD is damaged and not because the original CD is corrupted.

This is what I was suggesting :slight_smile:

#7

[QUOTE=geno888;2540158]My point is: are you completely sure that data stored in HDD are reliable?

If there is a malfunctioning in hard drive, data read from the disk can be unreliable, so when you run a comparison between CD and data stored in HDD you can get differences even if the original CD is integer.

If the HDD is failing the reason why you get verification errors is because the HDD is damaged and not because the original CD is corrupted.

This is what I was suggesting :)[/QUOTE]

Ah I see, I see! :bow: Nooo, I don’t think I made myself clear, the hard drive in itself is not failing and is running in tip top condition since 2003, when it was made. I think there was a bit of misunderstanding, so I apologise about that :doh: :o

But the question… er, in question, is rather to scrap a CD which may fail some tests even if they are perfectly readable? Like with floppy disks, they either were readable or they simply weren’t.

That being said, I decided to bin my Signalex discs after all of them got varification errors, or at least the ones I tried and promptly binned them and ran another copy off the hard drive , all of which I burnt some of my work, and instead switched to a Datawrite Titanium CD-R for everyday copy, and a Phillips CD-R for a master copy! :stuck_out_tongue:

#8

Also, PS - all of my hard drives listed have NOT failed, I’m judging this seven-year failure on hard drive as this is the average life expectancy of a hard drive. I’ve got some from 1997 still in good shape, but I digress. No, the hard drive isint failing or failed, just thought I would throw the hard drive life expectancy in. :slight_smile:

#9

No need to apologize :flower:

My English is not really perfect, and sometimes I’m not able to explain correctly what I mean :o

#10

No worries mate! After several reads, I did manage to understand fragments, but you lost me at parity data! :eek:

The basis of your comment from what I got is trying to suggest that the discs in itself are decent, but it is infact the hard drive that is failing by throwing up verification errors! :o

A valid attempt don’t get me wrong, and not totally irrelevant either! Infact, very thought provoking since my hard drive, though in top condition, is expected to fail soon I will keep a close on my Western Digital 80GB hard drive :bigsmile: That being said, I just decided to bin those discs as my Phillips reported them again and again as blank CDs when I know for a fact they are not because of the blue burner rings.

PS - When a disc has become unreadable, does the term “unreadable” mean that the reader incorrectly reports that there is a disc but there is no any data on the disc (thus, Blank CDs when they are not?) or it can be read but expect it to :Z errors when it tries to read it? Lastly, Windows might be able to read there is data on the disk but spend an insanely long time trying to read them (for those that used floppy disks in the last thousand years, the Click-Click-Click error used to floppies should be well-known to many) and crash?

Et al, I’m sure there are many other reasons but instead if a disc is throwing up errors, there is no point balancing your data for the cost of a disc. Although any sane person knows to make backups of your data, if this is your master disc your going to be pretty narked if your data goes belly-up one afternoon to the point where it is unreadable. Just burn another 12p disc off for me.

#11

Some software (like WinRAR and DVDisaster) allow to add parity data, i.e. some additional information that allow to recover data if a file become corrupted in some way.

A better explanation can be found here and here.

For really important stuff I always add parity data to my burned media, so even if the disc becomes damaged in some way and some sectors are not more readable, data can be still retrieved using the parity information.

The reason why I suggested that CD could be good and the data stored in HDD could be not good is because recently I had problems with my mainboard that caused the RAM to become damaged. If RAM are damaged, all data read from a CD/DVD can contain errors when written in HDD.

So, to exclude this possibility I suggested to run a memtest to be sure that verification errors are not caused by a hardware failure.

However, once you verified that HDD is working properly, and excluding errors in RAM memory, I agree with you that CD (plasmon discs are low quality media) is indeed the cause of errors in data verification :slight_smile:

Sorry if I added some confusion to the discussion :flower:

#12

G’damn, that’s added a smidgen more confusion, but not to worry, the parity palaver is now understood. So really parity data is like an insurance gesture when you damage a car, say - if your disc gets damanged, it might be repairable, just like car might be.

But of a quirky idea to think about, but works just the same :flower:

Certainly, I will run a test just to nail everything. But my word, I’ve used cheap discs for years now, and this is the only real serious failure I’ve had! Lesson learnt? Avoid Plasmon like the plague. Which shouldn’t be too hard, since near enough all cheap manufacturers are occupied by CMC, which for me no matter what brand they are, CMC Mags have always worked flawlessly.

But from now on, I will keep an eye on my data. Can’t let more duff discs pull the rug from underneath me :a

Just a quick PS note. How long is a lifetimes guarentee of a CD? I mean, I got some ASDA CD-Rs (CMC MAG) last year, which said they had a lifetime guarentee on them, but being ASDA and cheap discs, how far should this guarentee extend? Certainly no more than a few years.

The two batches I got this time were identical, but a different redesign where this time the lifetime guarentee had been removed and the text rearranged. Should this set alarm bells ringing? :eek:

#13

[QUOTE=Chad_Bronson;2540408]Just a quick PS note. How long is a lifetimes guarentee of a CD? I mean, I got some ASDA CD-Rs (CMC MAG) last year, which said they had a lifetime guarentee on them, but being ASDA and cheap discs, how far should this guarentee extend? Certainly no more than a few years.[/QUOTE] A lifetime guarantee is worthless. At best the guarantee will result in you getting blank replacement discs, but if your data is gone it’s gone - guarantee or no guarantee!

Assume that any one media will fail, so at least two different (types of) media should be used.

Also assume that cheap stuff is more likely to fail than medium-to-high priced stuff.

Nobody can tell you an accurate number for how long a disc will last. It all depends, and if anyone gives you a number, it’s based on a lot of assumptions as well as statistical averaging.

#14

The only optical media that has an absolute warranty of maximal 30 or 50 years is the pre formatted Magnetical Optical Disc (MO-DISC) which has been inside a dust free non-see through enclosure at all times. It is used in Medical Systems like CT scans.

All other optical media that comes up with some warranty about life span is utter fantasy and should not be taken seriously at all.

#15

Touché! :clap:

Wouldn’t need to worry about that - I have backups on different discs and a hard drive master copy - Incase either the discs go awry and I can burn another one, or if the hard drive corrupts the data or I want to transfer the data to a new computer, it can be reinstated from the discs! :bigsmile:

All good on that front, so what have I learned?

CMC MAG data are good, depending on what brand its under (Verbitim Life Series, for example)
Buy top-notch discs for consistancy - Datawrites Titanium are decent, but Taito Yuden is the way to go for TRUE consistency.
Signalex/Plasmon discs are :Z and should be avoided like the plague! :a

#16

For really important data, the best option is to make multiple copies and store them in different places. Adding parity data is another safety factor, but again only stones currently are the most durable data storage supports :bigsmile:

#17

Looks like I’m sorted!

Last things before I can resolve this, the greatest and best brands of optical media seem like a no-go for me, purely because they’re too expensive. Taito Yuden, for example, arguably the greatest thing since Tesco Value’s microwave meals, can easily cost three times as much as cheaper, if still decent brands like Arita Peach.

So can the kind members of Club MyCE do me a huge favour and point out to cheap brands which are decent? I use decent loosely so every factor can be considered. All I ask (from the members) is longtivity of these discs must be decently long.

Brand names don’t concern me, even some dirt cheap brands can be considered good media, for example, Datawrite Titanium I can easily vouch for quality media despite having the same media code as some really crappy media.

Some brands I have lined up are: Arita, Datawrite, Datasafe, etc for being decent media however people do put their input in. I can’t afford to pay Taito Yuden’s premiums, sorry! :frowning:

#18

The only proven quality option to Taiyo Yuden is Verbatim.

Most of Verbatim branded discs has a nice price :slight_smile:

#19

I’ll look into Verbitim actually, for top notch stuff, completely forgot about them! :doh:

Looks like it’s all good then. Verbitim for cheap but quality stuff. Soon as my Datawrite Titanium CD-Rs and Bulkpaq Generation 4 DVD-R diminishes, I’ll seek to make a more quality purchase.

Although that aside, both of these disc brands have done me well, no problems so far and I’m half way down a spindle :slight_smile:

#20

low quality discs can be still used, if you put a lot of parity data on them :slight_smile:

Even if few sectors becomes unreadable, with parity record you can still retrieve data :iagree: